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Author Topic: Left Buick and GM  (Read 3372 times, 30 Replies)
jamiegisi
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« Reply #20 on: February 28, 2017, 09:52:39 AM »

I would agree that the initial 2 years is a gamble, more so the first year then the second, but second is still a gamble.

I will be honest, I was a religious Lexus guy for a number of vehicles. Every three years I got a new one. I am not going to say they didn't have their problems too. They all will! The thing that always kept me coming back time and time again was the fact that Lexus always stood behind their product and made sure the they did what needed to be done to keep the customer happy and coming back. My biggest one was I had a 2012 IS250 awd F Sport (extremely fun car) - started noticing a whine noise, nothing big, it was just there and could be barely heard. I took it to the dealer, explained the issue and the tech couldn't hear anything so they asked me to come in when I was available and drive around with the tech and let him know when I hear it. So, stopped by that night, tech hoped in the car and drove down the road and I heard it and said there it is. The tech listened and listened and then said, yeah it is there, barely but it is there. Got back to the dealership and they said well we think it is coming from the differential, but it could be the transmission too, so take this loaner vehicle and we will order a new transmission and differential just to make sure it is fixed.
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DriveAround
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« Reply #21 on: February 28, 2017, 12:04:21 PM »

I feel the OP's pain. My 2009 Enclave has been a huge headache and become very costly. I admit that I love the car when things are going well, but those times do not last long.

i bought it used in Jan 2014 w/ 77 000km on it. had many of the issues the OP listed. Currently dealing with another major issue, possible misfire (AGAIN!!!!). can't drive at highway speeds right now.

Once I get this fixed I may also sell, and NEVER return to Buick. I owned an '02 Cavalier for 14 yrs, never had engine issues until the last yr I owned it (had electrical and CEL issues though).
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vic1212
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« Reply #22 on: February 28, 2017, 01:15:58 PM »

I would agree that the initial 2 years is a gamble, more so the first year then the second, but second is still a gamble.

I will be honest, I was a religious Lexus guy for a number of vehicles. Every three years I got a new one. I am not going to say they didn't have their problems too. They all will! The thing that always kept me coming back time and time again was the fact that Lexus always stood behind their product and made sure the they did what needed to be done to keep the customer happy and coming back. My biggest one was I had a 2012 IS250 awd F Sport (extremely fun car) - started noticing a whine noise, nothing big, it was just there and could be barely heard. I took it to the dealer, explained the issue and the tech couldn't hear anything so they asked me to come in when I was available and drive around with the tech and let him know when I hear it. So, stopped by that night, tech hoped in the car and drove down the road and I heard it and said there it is. The tech listened and listened and then said, yeah it is there, barely but it is there. Got back to the dealership and they said well we think it is coming from the differential, but it could be the transmission too, so take this loaner vehicle and we will order a new transmission and differential just to make sure it is fixed.

I think that was exactly what happened to the brand new Honda Pilot the edmunds guys have for their long term test because they had the 9 speed and Honda says they're replacing the transmission with another new 9 speed
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Raceway
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« Reply #23 on: March 16, 2017, 03:05:29 AM »

How pathetic. You still don't understand why your enclave sucks. It's because it's completely made in the US by lazy American workers. "Buick Enclave Is Most American Of All Cars" be pround of it.   You would have been able to keep it for 10-12 years if it were made in China.

247wallst.com/autos/2016/07/03/buick-enclave-is-most-american-of-all-cars

Open your eyes. China is way ahead of US in terms of manufacturing capabilities. You will never get good quality at very low price, no matter where it is made. But you get way better quality from stuffs made in China if you are willing to pay the similar price.



Even if GM designs a stunningly beautiful car with solid engineering (like the Enclave), if that engineering is executed using cheap, poor quality parts manufactured in China then the quality will suffer.  But, if GM can save 80 cents per part by outsourcing, then that's what GM will do.  And the consumer will ultimately pay the price in repairs and frustration.  A company can't build brand loyalty if it takes such a dismissive attitude toward its buyers.

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kenthurgood
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« Reply #24 on: March 16, 2017, 06:58:56 AM »

I think I will just sit back and watch the fireworks  facepalm
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PaPas Truck
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« Reply #25 on: March 16, 2017, 10:14:10 AM »

 Binky Baby
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2016 Enclave, FWD, Premium Group, Dark Chocolate Metallic, Choccachino leather, SunRoof/Skylight, Captains Chairs 2nd row, Rear Seat Entertainment, 20 in. Wheels, Trailering Pkg. Hit the Road and Cargo Convenience

There are two kinds of people in this world.  SAILORS!. And those who wish they we
dzs3fz
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« Reply #26 on: March 16, 2017, 06:18:50 PM »

Sad that some people think the American auto worker is a lazy no good person and buying foreign is the only way to go.  Just wondering if those complaining are “American Workers”?   Maybe I should hire a “foreign” investment counselor for my 401k or a “foreign delivery company” that delivers packages to my home.  Maybe I should insist only a "Foreign" truck firm should move my products cross country since only they work hard.    Give me an American product and an American worker any day.   Proud to be able to say this............. 
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Raceway
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« Reply #27 on: March 16, 2017, 09:19:20 PM »

Sad that some people think the American auto worker is a lazy no good person and buying foreign is the only way to go.  Just wondering if those complaining are “American Workers”?   Maybe I should hire a “foreign” investment counselor for my 401k or a “foreign delivery company” that delivers packages to my home.  Maybe I should insist only a "Foreign" truck firm should move my products cross country since only they work hard.    Give me an American product and an American worker any day.   Proud to be able to say this............. 

I take it back. It's unfair to say they are lazy (at least not all of them). But there are big issues with this county that caused situations like this, and its sad to see that US is not that powerful like before anymore.  Like him or not, i hope the president can really make this country great again.
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Fcar53
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« Reply #28 on: March 17, 2017, 12:18:25 PM »

Honestly, I think we all should know at this point that never buy a vehicle that it's in the first two model years of the time frame
There it is in a nut shell. I came over from a 2009 Traverse LTZ, first year run. Lots of problems. Always under warranty till 80000 miles. No out of pocket money except what i paid for warranty. Moved to a 2015 Buick Enclave Premium that i picked used with 5000 miles. Have owned now for almost a year. In that same time period with the traverse i can't tell you how many times it was at the dealer. The Buick [knock on wood] known. WHY you ask? They got the kinks out after, what 6 years. Just came back from a 7 week trip to Florida and back to Pittsburgh put on 4000 miles and it was flawless. You can bitch and moan about GM. All these auto companies are the same. I had a BMW X3 i could not what to get rid of. Have you ever been to a assembly plant, I have, the corvette plant. Those cats work, because that line never stops. These days buying anything is a crap shoot. You will not buy a perfect anything.
« Last Edit: March 17, 2017, 12:22:21 PM by Fcar53 » Logged

1998 torch red corvette                                                                                      2011 silver ice equinox LTZ                                                                                 2015 white diamond enclave premium
wvuguy
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« Reply #29 on: Yesterday at 09:29:02 AM »

I just think it's probably a good idea to wait on a vehicle that barely came out for at least one or two model years. I know that not every vehicle when they first introduced will have problems but I just think it's a good idea to wait a few model years for manufacturers to work their kinks and bugs out. But that's not to say every automakers are perfect. Take the current Tacoma for example, even though Toyotas are bulletproof, the current Tacoma have customers complaining about the new 6speed transmission and toyotas have service bulletin for that. Same for the Cherokees. Heck even my cousin wants that brand new compass and I have to told her to wait on it.

With the possible exception of electronics.....whose problems are pretty widespread in themselves......is there anything that generates more universal disdain these days than transmissions ?? 

From what I can tell.....and vic's Tacoma reference not withstanding.....6-speeds seem currently to represent the absolute top of the design food chain in terms of long-term reliability.  More than that and the issues across most OEM's seem pretty much universal.  I guess I've assumed that's because there's so much joint development these days among the OEM's on new tranny designs (most of which are comparatively faulty out of the box).  And, even if (some) CVT's seem more reliable, there's that very vocal group (particularly in the media) who find them singularly distasteful in terms of their effect on performance.

Anyway, back to vic's post......given FCA's fairly lousy track record on quality (both new and long-term), I too would almost certainly council someone to give them a fairly wide berth for probably the first 2 years of any new design.  And I think most around here feel that way about new GM designs;  though I'm equally sure there are folks around here dying to be the first in their neighborhoods to bring home a Gen 2 Enclave. 
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'09 CXL FWD (invoiced 9/4/08, delivered 12/18/08) replaced by a 2012 Subaru Outback 2.5 Limited on 3/16/12.  Added a Nissan Altima 2.5 SV on 3/2/16, a 2009 Buick Lucerne CXL on 4/21/15, and a 2002 Honda Accord SE on 5/22/14.
wvuguy
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« Reply #30 on: Yesterday at 09:57:51 AM »

How pathetic. You still don't understand why your enclave sucks. It's because it's completely made in the US by lazy American workers. "Buick Enclave Is Most American Of All Cars" be pround of it.   You would have been able to keep it for 10-12 years if it were made in China.

247wallst.com/autos/2016/07/03/buick-enclave-is-most-american-of-all-cars

Open your eyes. China is way ahead of US in terms of manufacturing capabilities. You will never get good quality at very low price, no matter where it is made. But you get way better quality from stuffs made in China if you are willing to pay the similar price.

Strictly speaking, your generalized assertion about American workers couldn't be more inaccurate.  High quality is a function of a number of factors, all of which have to mesh.  Design, sourcing, logistics, manufacturing, distribution, retail, and service all have to come together to generate a positive ownership experience for the buyer.   And only a comparatively small percentage of that has to do with the goings-on at the assembly line.

Focusing solely on your claim about American (assembly-line) worker, it became clear decades ago that American workers can assemble/build a vehicle every bit as well as the best non-American labor.  It was all about the fundamental manufacturing process;  built into the (in particular) Japanese philosophy was the creation of a workplace environment where the employee was respected, and was fully part of the process.  This is something the domestic manufacturers took a fair amount of time to embrace.  

Years later....and since I'm no longer employed an automotive supplier......I'm not sure FCA, Ford, and GM have ever implemented these kinds of systems quite to Honda and Toyota's extent.  But the Japanese imports proved absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt that American workers could build their highest volume vehicles every bit as good as those imported from their homeland.  Said another way, you give the American worker a stake in his future (and his success) comparable to his foreign counterpart, and the improvements follow essentially by definition.  Of course, as I said before, assembly labor is only one component of a much larger proposition.

BTW, none of that has anything to do with Trump.
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'09 CXL FWD (invoiced 9/4/08, delivered 12/18/08) replaced by a 2012 Subaru Outback 2.5 Limited on 3/16/12.  Added a Nissan Altima 2.5 SV on 3/2/16, a 2009 Buick Lucerne CXL on 4/21/15, and a 2002 Honda Accord SE on 5/22/14.
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