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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
The last time I purchased my 2011 Enclave, 6 years ago, all the sites that provided invoice pricing were really helpful. I am referring to sites like truecar.com and edmunds.com.

Six years later, I find these sites to be completely untrustworthy. I get the impression that they are now more about generating leads for dealers at inflated "Internet Pricing". Heck, I could not believe the amount of spam via email and text messages I received within the the first couple minutes after registering at truecar.com! I was expecting to be able to configure my vehicle and see a line-item break down of prices, but instead I get some inflated True Pricing and 3 dealers calling me within 5 minutes.

The next shocker is to find most of the invoice pricing was within 5% of the MSRP! All this tells me is that invoice prices are now completely useless. At least with GM dealers, I have a good idea of how low below MSRP is reasonable. But with imports like Acura and Audi I have absolutely no gauge of how to negotiate with them.

I was thinking of a 2017 Enclave Premium AWD, but I can't believe I am purchasing a 40K+ vehicle in 2017 and still don't have the key less start or programmable liftgate! I know the 2018 Enclave has it, but I never buy first year model of a major redesign. So now I am considering an Acura MDX, but I have not gauge how much leeway is there for price negotiation.
 

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Have you looked at the pricing on 2017 leather group ?

couple dealers around here a advertising up to 15K off , I gave up trying to figure out / get that deal
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The 2017 Leather group are missing features that I currently have in my 2011 CXL-2. So it would have to be the premium group or I just keep the 2011.
 

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Just saw a Buick ad on tv for a17 Enclave premium $10,000 off. As far as invoice prices, GM as well as other manufacturers reduced their spread between invoice and MSRP. For arguments sake, IO have an 18 Avenir on order. The invoice is about $2200. below MSRP.
 

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Forgot to mention: to add insult to injury, gm includes advertising fees on their invoice. So the so called invoice price you see on the pricing sites is not accurate. For instance, with the advertising fees included, the actual invoice on my ordered vehicle is about $800. higher.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
This new MSRP discount pricing strategy is making the dealers lazy. I have been negotiating prices with several dealers and no matter how many times I state that all quoted prices should exclude GM consumer rebates, they keep on including the rebates to show how much below MSRP they are offering. When I factor out the rebates, the dealers are only going 5% below MSRP.

At this point, I don't really care what the invoice says, I have set a price that I am willing to pay and is hoping that most buyers are only interested in the 2018 to put more pressure on the dealers to move the 2017s.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Just saw a Buick ad on tv for a17 Enclave premium $10,000 off. As far as invoice prices, GM as well as other manufacturers reduced their spread between invoice and MSRP. For arguments sake, IO have an 18 Avenir on order. The invoice is about $2200. below MSRP.
What was your negotiating strategy? For example, was it based on invoice pricing or discount from MSRP?
 

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What was your negotiating strategy? For example, was it based on invoice pricing or discount from MSRP?

I tried using the invoice pricing from the various sites, which as I stated is below the actual true invoice. Went to several dealers. Since it is a new refreshed model, of course, there isn't much wiggle room as opposed to buying the 17 model. Several dealers including one I made a previous purchase from wanted about $400 above the true invoice. So when a dealer brought out the true invoice including the advertising fees, and offered the vehicle for that price, I took it. In addition they are giving me a good deal on my trade.
 

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Before the age of the internet the Invoice price meant something. It was what the dealer paid. But as the internet came, this information became readily available. So the car companies figured out they had to figure out a way to hide the dealers compensation. So instead of just selling a car to the dealer at a certain price, the car companies compensating the dealers through bonus based upon sales volume. Now all of the prices you see on the sites are just based upon what everyone else overpaid. All of the sites are really lead generation sites now. The best way is to get the dealers to bid. You never know who needs a sale more and is willing to come off their price to get it to get a larger bonus.
 

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Before the age of the internet the Invoice price meant something. It was what the dealer paid. But as the internet came, this information became readily available. So the car companies figured out they had to figure out a way to hide the dealers compensation. So instead of just selling a car to the dealer at a certain price, the car companies compensating the dealers through bonus based upon sales volume. Now all of the prices you see on the sites are just based upon what everyone else overpaid. All of the sites are really lead generation sites now. The best way is to get the dealers to bid. You never know who needs a sale more and is willing to come off their price to get it to get a larger bonus.

I found this info to be a good guide for recent prices and invoice https://fightingchance.com/pricing.php

That said I bought my 2018 Enclave using the Costco auto program after I bought the fighting chance price guide. The Costco price was below market although not a lot as it was when they first came out and dealers only had 1 Avenier if any. The dealer kicked in another 1000 in GM bonus dollars and knocked a lot off of extended warranty.



10 years ago I called the sales manager and asked him if he wanted to sell a car, told him what I wanted, the vin, where it was and how much I wanted to pay. They sold it for less than I wanted to pay because after we reached agreement on price he added some GM discounts.
 

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I found this info to be a good guide for recent prices and invoice https://fightingchance.com/pricing.php

That said I bought my 2018 Enclave using the Costco auto program after I bought the fighting chance price guide. The Costco price was below market although not a lot as it was when they first came out and dealers only had 1 Avenier if any. The dealer kicked in another 1000 in GM bonus dollars and knocked a lot off of extended warranty.



10 years ago I called the sales manager and asked him if he wanted to sell a car, told him what I wanted, the vin, where it was and how much I wanted to pay. They sold it for less than I wanted to pay because after we reached agreement on price he added some GM discounts.

Costco and Sams clubs programs are just lead generators for the dealers and they get a kick back in which you paid.
 

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Costco and Sams clubs programs are just lead generators for the dealers and they get a kick back in which you paid.

Well Costco sent me a $700 cash card and a 50% off any service or accessory coupon up to $400 or $500 so a least $900 more so like a lot of things they redistribute cash cards on items they can't discount beyond a certain level.



At the time I bought my vehicle there were 8 in Northern CA except 3 of them were still on the train and for tax purposes I needed to do a deal before the end of year and there were only 2 or 3 that had the package with adaptive cruise control so I didn't have a lot of leverage
 
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