Since my dealer can't or won't give me a good answer on why my Enclave isn't yet scheduled to be built, (Order date 4/23). I haved turned to the Buick web sight and have sent them 7 e-mails since Wednesday July 25. The 3 month anniversary of my order. Each time a e-mail is sent, I get a message that someone will contact me within 48 hours. Guess what, and this won't come as a suprise, I have yet to hear from anybody connected with Buick. The only contact that I have had was with a customer service rep. that I called and the follow up phone call, while we were eating supper, from a marketing firm that GM must employ. They just asked about the phone call in general, how polite the rep was, if I got my problem/concern taken care of, etc... Of course, the Buick customer service rep. was of no help at all. Meanwhile, I'm still waiting on for my answer.
Buick, Why haven't you answered me?
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Buick has built a winner in the Enclave and they are going to screw it up. I have been watching this forum for a couple of months now and slowly watching that people are getting more and more frustrated in what is going on. I am still planning on ordering a Enclave when they offer the options I am wanting but maybe not, if this is what to expect.
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I have to agree with this. 7-10 weeks seems to be the normal build time.MsS42 said:
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Could be that they don't have enough allocation and are putting your order at the bottom of their list..... It seems they can prioritize their "orders" so that if yours is #10 when they get 9 allocated, you'll get bumped until the next allocation at which time they can bump you again if they prioritize you behind their other orders. At least that is what I'm hearing in the blogs... doesn't seem like an order to me if it only is sitting on a list.
At least my dealer was honest enough to tell me that they wouldn't have an allocation for me until July when I tried to order in May...
(I'm a supplier pricing customer so they wanted their first allocations for higher profit sales.... and looks like they are getting them out here in the west)
They tell me that it's was ordered on 7/26. Cross your fingers, I hope they don't screw me and do this to me as well...
GM needs to get their act together.... I've ordered cars from BMW/Mercedes/Audi with as much as a 6 month wait time (Audi was putting in the air suspension only in the next model year, so we had to wait for the order) There was always clear communication between manufacturer and customer, the dealer even called me to tell me when my BMW was put on the boat. Although this was most likely because a transport sank right before my car shipped and they wanted to assure me that my car wasn't sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic.
What GM seems to not understand is that it doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you communicate this to the customer and deliver as promised. Do they really think they'll keep the business of those who would go somewhere else becuase they hide how long it will take?
This game they seem to be playing is absurd.
I hope my decision to buy an American car wasn't a mistake...
At least my dealer was honest enough to tell me that they wouldn't have an allocation for me until July when I tried to order in May...
(I'm a supplier pricing customer so they wanted their first allocations for higher profit sales.... and looks like they are getting them out here in the west)
They tell me that it's was ordered on 7/26. Cross your fingers, I hope they don't screw me and do this to me as well...
GM needs to get their act together.... I've ordered cars from BMW/Mercedes/Audi with as much as a 6 month wait time (Audi was putting in the air suspension only in the next model year, so we had to wait for the order) There was always clear communication between manufacturer and customer, the dealer even called me to tell me when my BMW was put on the boat. Although this was most likely because a transport sank right before my car shipped and they wanted to assure me that my car wasn't sitting on the bottom of the Atlantic.
What GM seems to not understand is that it doesn't matter how long it takes as long as you communicate this to the customer and deliver as promised. Do they really think they'll keep the business of those who would go somewhere else becuase they hide how long it will take?
This game they seem to be playing is absurd.
I hope my decision to buy an American car wasn't a mistake...
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MsS42, please read my response again... you seem to have missed the point entirely... I clearly said my dealer wasn't lying to me about where my order was; they were honest about not accepting the order until July. I respect them for that. The point of the message is that there is a scenario here where a less honest dealer could say that they've placed the order and not be technically fradulent, but make ticner58 wait in limbo basically forever.... not the interaction that one would expect from a premium brand. Might not be true, but Buick has apparently not been spending any resources to respond to customer complaints and inquiries to clear this up.
Also for those saying that this all isn't GM's problem, you are dead wrong. This is very much GM's problem.... The dealer is the front line contact with the consumer for GM. Any problems with the dealers will hurt the perception of the brand and therefore GM's bottom line. That's why the most valuable brands are very careful to control the dealer-customer interaction. Dealers that don't meet the manufacturers requirements are penalized and dropped if necessary. It happens and I've seen it...After purchase surveys are extremely important to them and any complaint is treated as being very serious. No company is perfect, people can get ripped off by a rogue dealer from any brand, but there is a perception that GM isn't on the ball here, and perception is reality in marketing.
Also for those saying that this all isn't GM's problem, you are dead wrong. This is very much GM's problem.... The dealer is the front line contact with the consumer for GM. Any problems with the dealers will hurt the perception of the brand and therefore GM's bottom line. That's why the most valuable brands are very careful to control the dealer-customer interaction. Dealers that don't meet the manufacturers requirements are penalized and dropped if necessary. It happens and I've seen it...After purchase surveys are extremely important to them and any complaint is treated as being very serious. No company is perfect, people can get ripped off by a rogue dealer from any brand, but there is a perception that GM isn't on the ball here, and perception is reality in marketing.
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I agree with your statement that the Dealer is on the Front Line with the Customer. The Customer is #1! There should not be any magic to this whole process. You place an order, the manf. site builds and ships. What is so hard about the date? It is very frustrating to see Enclaves built to your spec.'s but sent to different dealers. A trade arrangement has already be made so we can't go elsewhere. Shouldn't the Customer be #1?
I don't like two things here. One, the dealer either not knowing or passing the buck. Two GM being hard to find and never responsive to attempts to communicate. I honestly don't think GM reads their mail. Why should they? They act like they don't have to satisfy us. Once they make the car, we'll buy, and they know it. If we don't like the Buick, they switch over to Pontiac. They still get the sale. Big deal? No. They know we're loyal to them. More so than they to us. I waited three months for my Silverado SS and the process was the same. Silence until it was almost time for delivery. I don't know why I put up with it, but I have so far. If GM were listening and really wanting to build a relationship with their buyers, they'd come back to the dealer offering to build the car with the lux pkg minus the power tilt and telescoping steering, if we'd accept it that way. With a slight reduction in price, we could at least feel like we're included somehow in the decision making process. That would make me feel a lot better!
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You are absolutely right; the dealer is GM’s image to the public. I am sorry for the long wait, and that is why we have added a third shift. Believe me we do care and are working 9 to 10 hours a day and Saturdays and will get third shift up ASAP.
Yes the customer I number one, and thank you for choosing us.
Again sorry for the wait
Yes the customer I number one, and thank you for choosing us.
Again sorry for the wait
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Sorry to break this to you guys, but I just got a call from my dealer with a build date of Aug 27th... seems like ticner IS really getting the shaft from his dealer. Don, perhaps you should bring his situation up with the internal GM community. I'm also sure the CEO wouldn't be happy to hear about what is happening to him...I'd love to be there to see the fallout if a call came in from Rick Wagoner to ticner's dealer about unethical behavior....
Even if there is a long Build Date, there is no reason why GM shouldn't have picked up my order. May 18th is too long with no response from GM.Don Willems said:
I really want the Rear Console, but that's beside the point. If my Enclave had come in already I would have accepted it without the Console, however, since we're this late and GM still hasn't picked up the order, I might as well wait and hope for the Console. I saw my order on the Dealer's Computer. Sorry A$$ GM just didn't pick it up yet.
I'm going to wait for the Enclave,but,
I also want a Luxury Vehicle with a V 12 Engine. Caddy is in the making, but I wouldn't dare after this. BMW, here I come. 760li has a nice Engine.
You are absolutely right; the dealer is GM’s image to the public. I am sorry for the long wait, and that is why we have added a third shift. Believe me we do care and are working 9 to 10 hours a day and Saturdays and will get third shift up ASAP.
Yes the customer I number one, and thank you for choosing us.
Again sorry for the wait
Don, we're not unhappy with you workers. It isn't your fault, yet you see the complaints and receive all the fallout. I'd just like to see the execs ready this forum to get a feel of the uneasiness we have out her. WE really appreciate the fact that you are willing to offer insider news once in a while and hope you can continue to do so. Also build quality is just as important, so if hurrying is at the expense of quality control, than please opt for quality control. I want the best **** car in America once it gets here. For now, I'd really like to receive status reports. I did receive a call from my dealer offering to explain the allocation process. I will go in tomorrow to see him. That is what the dealers should offer us. Information. Thanks again.
Yes the customer I number one, and thank you for choosing us.
Again sorry for the wait
Don, we're not unhappy with you workers. It isn't your fault, yet you see the complaints and receive all the fallout. I'd just like to see the execs ready this forum to get a feel of the uneasiness we have out her. WE really appreciate the fact that you are willing to offer insider news once in a while and hope you can continue to do so. Also build quality is just as important, so if hurrying is at the expense of quality control, than please opt for quality control. I want the best **** car in America once it gets here. For now, I'd really like to receive status reports. I did receive a call from my dealer offering to explain the allocation process. I will go in tomorrow to see him. That is what the dealers should offer us. Information. Thanks again.
Finally did get a e-mail back from Buick. Lets just say it wasn't good news. Reading between the lines, it looks like that since I chose this particular dealer to deal with, I'm the one that is paying the penalty. Because of their lower sales, when compaired to nearby dealers in larger cities, their allotment is low. If I would have went to one of them in April, I probably would be driving it or at the very least, it would have been built sooner. So much for trying to be loyal to my dealer. I might be wrong, maybe someone else can help clarify this for me.
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Hi Ticner58,
I am really sorry to hear about this not-so-good news. It's very likely that the information in your email is correct -- all having to do with how Buick metes out the allocation of cars to its dealers. I have done a little research on other "hot" GM cars -- the Solstice and Sky are 2 recent examples. You'd find a very similar scenario where folks have ordered cars from a dealership but the dealer didn't have enough allocation to get them a car any time soon.
And as has been talked about in another thread, this is GM's problem -- they cannot control the dealers (as evidently, other premium brands seem to have much more control over dealership practices) and this is what you get: dealer says sure, place the order with me -- doesn't bother or want to tell you that he gets only 1 car a month allocated to him, that he's already got 4 orders ahead of yours, so in reality, you order in April, your order doesn't even go against his allocation until August.
In my book, this lack of dealership control over this type of sales "malpractice" is going to lose them a lot of business for a long time. I think there are many people here who are turned off by what's gone on and may never return. Just as a side note -- I checked with my sales guy yesterday -- I'm still sitting at code 1100. We ordered 7/27, order was actually entered in VOMS on 8/1. I still am hoping that by EOD tomorrow, my dealer will get add'l allocations and be able to use one of those to get my order to the next stage. Supposedly, additional allocations are to be meted out by Buick by end of this week to the dealers -- but one can only assume that dealers who already have a larger allocation to begin with are really going to be helped -- I suspect they will base these add'l allocations the same way they did, on previous sales volume, dealership size, location, etc.
Ticner58, have you asked the owner of your dealership about where your order stands in terms of his allocation pool? Are you the next in line to use an allocation of his, and if so, when will that allocation happen? Those are the things you need to find out and if you don't get a good answer, it might be worth finding a dealer that will order using his next allocation. Just a thought.
I really wish you luck -- I can only imagine how frustrated you must be having placed an order in April, thinking you'd have your Enclave by end of July.
I am really sorry to hear about this not-so-good news. It's very likely that the information in your email is correct -- all having to do with how Buick metes out the allocation of cars to its dealers. I have done a little research on other "hot" GM cars -- the Solstice and Sky are 2 recent examples. You'd find a very similar scenario where folks have ordered cars from a dealership but the dealer didn't have enough allocation to get them a car any time soon.
And as has been talked about in another thread, this is GM's problem -- they cannot control the dealers (as evidently, other premium brands seem to have much more control over dealership practices) and this is what you get: dealer says sure, place the order with me -- doesn't bother or want to tell you that he gets only 1 car a month allocated to him, that he's already got 4 orders ahead of yours, so in reality, you order in April, your order doesn't even go against his allocation until August.
In my book, this lack of dealership control over this type of sales "malpractice" is going to lose them a lot of business for a long time. I think there are many people here who are turned off by what's gone on and may never return. Just as a side note -- I checked with my sales guy yesterday -- I'm still sitting at code 1100. We ordered 7/27, order was actually entered in VOMS on 8/1. I still am hoping that by EOD tomorrow, my dealer will get add'l allocations and be able to use one of those to get my order to the next stage. Supposedly, additional allocations are to be meted out by Buick by end of this week to the dealers -- but one can only assume that dealers who already have a larger allocation to begin with are really going to be helped -- I suspect they will base these add'l allocations the same way they did, on previous sales volume, dealership size, location, etc.
Ticner58, have you asked the owner of your dealership about where your order stands in terms of his allocation pool? Are you the next in line to use an allocation of his, and if so, when will that allocation happen? Those are the things you need to find out and if you don't get a good answer, it might be worth finding a dealer that will order using his next allocation. Just a thought.
I really wish you luck -- I can only imagine how frustrated you must be having placed an order in April, thinking you'd have your Enclave by end of July.
Can anyone determine what the actual LEAD-TIME is once a dealer's order is accepted by GM? I am guessing some of you who have had to wait 12-16 weeks or longer didn't even have your order accepted because of the dealer's allocation until 4-8 weeks AFTER you placed the order with the dealer. If I find a dealer who has an allocation slot open when I place an order with him, can I count 6-8 weeks from THAT date?
I really don't understand this allocation practice. So a dealer is only shipped two Enclaves early in the summer and they immediately sell, and Buick has no more to send them for weeks or months. They have a line of customers who have placed orders, but these orders don't count as sales. Their allocation is based on Enclave sales, which is limited by Buick/GM and not the customer base in that area. They only receive allocation for one vehicle a month, which counts as their only Enclave sale that month, thus Buick/GM never increases allocation despite the fact that six orders are in the system and more people in the community are interested but either won't buy a vehicle sight unseen (and none on the lot to show them) or are being told by the dealer that the order will take four to six months due to the backlog.
Now... how is that supposed to be fair to the customers again? We've been waiting eight weeks, still at status code 1100. Luckily our dealer only had one order in the system before us (several more after us), and that order has been assigned a build date (late August I believe). Hopefully, ours will be scheduled soon, and we're looking at ONLY a ~14-16 week wait. Originally, we were told 6-8 weeks, which would have put the arrival at or close enough to my wife's birthday (end of July) to have made a nice gift. Now it's looking more like a Christmas present.
hno:
Now... how is that supposed to be fair to the customers again? We've been waiting eight weeks, still at status code 1100. Luckily our dealer only had one order in the system before us (several more after us), and that order has been assigned a build date (late August I believe). Hopefully, ours will be scheduled soon, and we're looking at ONLY a ~14-16 week wait. Originally, we were told 6-8 weeks, which would have put the arrival at or close enough to my wife's birthday (end of July) to have made a nice gift. Now it's looking more like a Christmas present.
hno:
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Osli,
Take a look at this forum -- http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13295 -- there's some dealer participation and I think, some pretty good explanation if you read through the messages as to the whole allocation process that GM uses. This is for the Pontiac Solstice -- folks that wanted to buy one when they first came out went through the same thing as what we're seeing.
According to https://www.wheels.com/fleet/reference/assembly/html/assembly_lines.asp, the Enclave is 8-10 weeks with limited availability for White Diamond Tricoat.
It's 8-10 weeks AFTER the order is ACCEPTED into the VOMS system -- so, depending upon your dealer's allocation and the # of orders "ahead" of you (this could be a killer for folks -- my dealer said he did his by date order was written -- but the dealer can preference the order in any way he wants -- he can do it based on how much money he makes on your deal vs someone else's, he can do it because the guy/gal is an old pal and puts that order ahead of yours, etc.).
You can read in that Solstice forum just how GM does the Allocation dance -- what it's based on. It doesn't matter that a particular dealer has taken orders for 100 Enclaves; they will only get allocated a certain number and some of those orders that don't ever get ACCEPTED into the GM order system by using a dealer's allotment, will NEVER GET BUILT! That was what was clear in that Solstice forum; dealers took tons of orders, mislead customers, and their orders never got built (at least for that model year).
The allocation of Enclaves is NOT based on Enclave sales -- it is based on Buick sales (big $$ sales, volume) dealer size, location -- a bunch of OTHER things. I believe there's a bunch of dealers that are only able to put 1 order in a month for build. The 2nd factor is, if you have a order that doesn't fit some parameters (like when the Lux pkg was in short supply) or the White Tricoat now, your dealer wouldn't use his allocation on your order because it will end up sitting on hold -- it wouldn't get built. So, they would likely put in another order.
Merry Christmas
A lot of us feel your pain
Take a look at this forum -- http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13295 -- there's some dealer participation and I think, some pretty good explanation if you read through the messages as to the whole allocation process that GM uses. This is for the Pontiac Solstice -- folks that wanted to buy one when they first came out went through the same thing as what we're seeing.
According to https://www.wheels.com/fleet/reference/assembly/html/assembly_lines.asp, the Enclave is 8-10 weeks with limited availability for White Diamond Tricoat.
It's 8-10 weeks AFTER the order is ACCEPTED into the VOMS system -- so, depending upon your dealer's allocation and the # of orders "ahead" of you (this could be a killer for folks -- my dealer said he did his by date order was written -- but the dealer can preference the order in any way he wants -- he can do it based on how much money he makes on your deal vs someone else's, he can do it because the guy/gal is an old pal and puts that order ahead of yours, etc.).
You can read in that Solstice forum just how GM does the Allocation dance -- what it's based on. It doesn't matter that a particular dealer has taken orders for 100 Enclaves; they will only get allocated a certain number and some of those orders that don't ever get ACCEPTED into the GM order system by using a dealer's allotment, will NEVER GET BUILT! That was what was clear in that Solstice forum; dealers took tons of orders, mislead customers, and their orders never got built (at least for that model year).
The allocation of Enclaves is NOT based on Enclave sales -- it is based on Buick sales (big $$ sales, volume) dealer size, location -- a bunch of OTHER things. I believe there's a bunch of dealers that are only able to put 1 order in a month for build. The 2nd factor is, if you have a order that doesn't fit some parameters (like when the Lux pkg was in short supply) or the White Tricoat now, your dealer wouldn't use his allocation on your order because it will end up sitting on hold -- it wouldn't get built. So, they would likely put in another order.
Merry Christmas
A lot of us feel your pain
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317 Posts
Osli,
I also found this article about VOMS -- these are actual dealer quotes:
"GM told us it was going to be a pull system; that is, we tell them what we want. But it's not; it's definitely a push system. Another thing that's just irritating as ****: let's say you (the customer) wanted a red Suburban. You go to your local dealer to order a red Suburban. The dealer has to say, 'Sorry, but I can't order that for you.' That's a major problem with VOMS. If the dealer has earned allocation for a Suburban that week, he can change the color and option configuration of that vehicle to match the customer's needs. If he hasn't earned a Suburban, the dealer has to wait until the following week to see if he's earned a Suburban. GM allocates the dealer model numbers, body styles, and the dealer has to configure those model numbers to what you want for your inventory. But you can't just sit down and place a sold order anymore.
I had a customer who wanted a regular-cab, short-box Silverado V-8. We didn't have allocation for that type of vehicle for three weeks. We'd already told him it would probably take six to eight weeks to get his vehicle. I had to call a dealer friend of mine and ask him to let me order that truck through his allocation, and we'll just do a swap on something he needs. That's what I am having to do to get my customers the vehicles they're asking for.
The allocations are based on what the dealer has forecast in his consensus the previous month. If I tell Chevrolet I want five regular-cab Silverados, I can request them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get them. The only way to know whether or not you'll get them is if they appear on your computer on the day of the allocation. You have to go into the computer and see what you're going to get. If the sales manager isn't alert and doesn't react immediately to the unwanted vehicles he sees on the screen, then the dealer is going to get those vehicles.
Another example: let's say it's noon Tuesday, you go to the computer to see what you ye earned for the week. If there's a chassis cab in there and you don't want it, you need to try to put a pickup bed on it because it's a whole lot more marketable as a pickup than it is as a chassis cab. If your sales manager waits a day before he tries to change that order, all the pickup beds will already be gone, and you'll end up with the chassis cab.
You can't cancel the order the best you can do is post that vehicle on a bulletin board under Pattern for Trade and hope that some dealer out there is looking for a chassis cab at that moment. If not, that baby's coming to you. The order that's generated by the factory is very generic. It's up to the dealer to go into the computer and customize each vehicle, or else you'll end up with a lot of white cars on the lot."
Reading through this, you really have to rely on the dealer to be honest with you -- and inherently, this is the overall problem with trying to order and Enclave -- too many orders, not enough dealer allocations.
I also found this article about VOMS -- these are actual dealer quotes:
"GM told us it was going to be a pull system; that is, we tell them what we want. But it's not; it's definitely a push system. Another thing that's just irritating as ****: let's say you (the customer) wanted a red Suburban. You go to your local dealer to order a red Suburban. The dealer has to say, 'Sorry, but I can't order that for you.' That's a major problem with VOMS. If the dealer has earned allocation for a Suburban that week, he can change the color and option configuration of that vehicle to match the customer's needs. If he hasn't earned a Suburban, the dealer has to wait until the following week to see if he's earned a Suburban. GM allocates the dealer model numbers, body styles, and the dealer has to configure those model numbers to what you want for your inventory. But you can't just sit down and place a sold order anymore.
I had a customer who wanted a regular-cab, short-box Silverado V-8. We didn't have allocation for that type of vehicle for three weeks. We'd already told him it would probably take six to eight weeks to get his vehicle. I had to call a dealer friend of mine and ask him to let me order that truck through his allocation, and we'll just do a swap on something he needs. That's what I am having to do to get my customers the vehicles they're asking for.
The allocations are based on what the dealer has forecast in his consensus the previous month. If I tell Chevrolet I want five regular-cab Silverados, I can request them, but that doesn't mean I'm going to get them. The only way to know whether or not you'll get them is if they appear on your computer on the day of the allocation. You have to go into the computer and see what you're going to get. If the sales manager isn't alert and doesn't react immediately to the unwanted vehicles he sees on the screen, then the dealer is going to get those vehicles.
Another example: let's say it's noon Tuesday, you go to the computer to see what you ye earned for the week. If there's a chassis cab in there and you don't want it, you need to try to put a pickup bed on it because it's a whole lot more marketable as a pickup than it is as a chassis cab. If your sales manager waits a day before he tries to change that order, all the pickup beds will already be gone, and you'll end up with the chassis cab.
You can't cancel the order the best you can do is post that vehicle on a bulletin board under Pattern for Trade and hope that some dealer out there is looking for a chassis cab at that moment. If not, that baby's coming to you. The order that's generated by the factory is very generic. It's up to the dealer to go into the computer and customize each vehicle, or else you'll end up with a lot of white cars on the lot."
Reading through this, you really have to rely on the dealer to be honest with you -- and inherently, this is the overall problem with trying to order and Enclave -- too many orders, not enough dealer allocations.
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