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Gshields-I apologize in advance if this sounds terse. You actually take your Tonka, er sorry, I mean Ridgeline over your Acadia because of the steering wheel controls? Wow, can I borrow the Enclave? The worst car I ever owned was a Honda Civic that overheated when you turned on the AC. A real feature when I lived in Atlanta. The difference is I don't consider it indicative of all Hondas or Japanese vs. American.
 

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Reading this entire string objectively makes me laugh at those that continue to make excuses for GM's poor execution and service. Nice car - not without its issues, but what car is not. Simply pathetic that a company like GM can't get it right by simply copying the best practices of it Asian competitors when it comes to after sales service. THAT is what keeps people coming back once you already have a great product.

Quick making excuses for GM - by doing so, you enable them to continue with the self-inflicted wounds. Ultimately they will either get it or implode on themselves (already happening).
 

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Simply pathetic that a company like GM can't get it right by simply copying the best practices of it Asian competitors when it comes to after sales service. THAT is what keeps people coming back once you already have a great product.
msinchats, this statement is once again generalizing the POOR "after sales service" practices of a few PRIVATELY OWNED dealerships as GM's fault. I have friends who are import owners who absolutely hate the after sales service issues with their dealership. The worst customer service experience I ever had was from a combination Pontiac/Nissan dealership, so poor after the sale service issues are reflective of the locally owned dealer NOT the manufacturer! Comments such as yours which are completely sympathetic to "Asian" car companies as worthy of being "copied" and GM as "pathetic" don't fly with me. I for one DON'T want GM to "copy" the imports, I want them to be BETTER. And from the looks of the lambdas and my experiences with most GM dealerships in our area, they are on the right track! That is my humble opinion, and you are welcome to yours, but I felt the need to reply.

P.S. Are you really an Enclave owner/admirer, or just a "lurker" planted by Toyondamazundai to make comments such as you just made?
 

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ccaats
I second your comments. I couldn't have said it better myself. :thumb:
 

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ccaats
Speaking as a Buick Owner since 1985(this is my fourth Buick), I am sure you will enjoy and appreciate what Buick has to offer. Now, Buick needs to follow up the Enclave with more new and exciting product. I am sure it will come, now that the Enclave has proven to be so successful.

EDIT: ccaats, did you remove your previous post? This response was to that post. ???
 

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Sorry Mr. Buick, I removed it and sent to you as a private message. Thanks again for your "objective" comments on this forum. You have been very helpful to all of us! :cheers:
 

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Top Dog said:
I think we have some "ANTI GM" Infiltrators on this forum!!
Everytime I read msinchats posts I think we have a foreign car dealer on the forum. We've been watching the lambda sales increase each month (except for July) - I wonder how sales of the MDX, CX9 and the others are holding up?
 

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July sales were probably down because of the 2-week factory shutdown.
 

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msinchats-no doubt Buick (GM) has a lot of improving to do in their service and communications to prospective buyers as evidenced many times over in this forum. But please spare me the wonderful Asian generalizations. The one (and only) time I have ever owned a Honda was completely negative. Because I was in my 20s they acted like they were doing me a favor just running a credit check. They thought I was lying about my salary so the called my boss while I was in the same room to verify. Then they tried to shove a deal down my throat with credit card interest and basically MSRP. When I balked, they kept me waiting alone for about 40 minutes. I would have walked away but my wife "had to have a Honda" so wound up with a lousy deal on what turned out to be a lousy car. Oh, and after the sale I tried to use them for routine maintenance where again they made me wait at times for 90 minutes for what basically was an oil change.

Are there good/great Honda, Toyota dealers? Sure. Are there good/great GM dealers? Absolutely. This perception that all things Asian are superior is a farce. Go on the Toyota Tundra forums if you don't believe me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #32 ·
Looks like ganging up on msinchats is the all the rage in this thread. I read the three posts. Other than some over generalizing, I do not disagree entirely with his posts (think "his" is right). The marketing effort could have been better with the second row console, the customer service can be better. From a Manufacturer/Buick perspective, Acura and Lexus customer service would be a good benchmark to target and exceed. And would a "plant" user account leave the home email account visible? Not likely. I will say though, the goodbye GM ending to the post before this one was curious.

I completely agree that the dealer generalizations are not fair nor an accurate reflection. And from the sales experience, some Honda/Acura and Toyota/Lexus dealerships cannot be topped in their arrogance. Would be fun to visit one of those dealers pretending to buy the Tundra and see what line they have to explain that product launch train wreck.
 

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I don't think anyone is "ganging up" on anyone, just expressing their opinions as this forum was designed for.
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
I might be reading too much into these posts.....

"Everytime I read msinchats posts I think we have a foreign car dealer on the forum" and,
"I think we have some "ANTI GM" Infiltrators on this forum!!"

Perhaps the second was directed to me.
 

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If the shoe fits.........

dfc, I didn't think your posts were ANTI-GM....maybe extremely nit-picky, but not anti GM. You have a right to be overly nit-picky about a $40K vehicle. But in my opinion msinchants has OBVIOUSLY been drinking the rice-aid. It is hard not to think so when reading his posts. We all have complaints and issues with GM over this car and some of their practices in general, BUT to make comments that GM is "pathetic" and all they need to do is copy the "asians" to solve their issues is both arrogant (as an import supporter) and immature. I certainly am glad that GM didn't copy the "asians" with the Enclave launch, based on what happened with the Tundra.....and that is just ONE example of how his comments are :bs:
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
ccaats,

While I personally agree with your sentiments and others that imports are not flawless, there is a strong perception that GM is behind the imports from quality to service and everything in between. Bob Lutz has stated as much numerous times and peers of ours like the Enclave but think we have lost our minds. "Perception is reality". Our peers are waiting for the Enclave to have more defects, waiting for GM to over build because they lack other successes and stretch this one too much, waiting for the massive discounts to kill resale in a few years, waiting for GM to be the GM they know and have read about - a poorly run financially troubled company. Fair or not, drinking the rice-aid as you state or not, that is the reality for a portion of the buying public.

You challenge those perceptions with (1) great product to lure them in the door and (2) great quality and service to keep them. GM has hit the target on the first bit with the Lambda's. They have not on the second in my experience - yet.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
Speaking of perception . . . . .

After we purchased our Enclave we needed to get our Acura MDX ready for sale and took it in for an oil change and to get the "needs service" light turned off. We dropped the MDX off on a Saturday morning and were going to grab brunch enjoying a drive in the Enclave. When we dropped off the MDX, the sales manager I had been working with asked if I was there to close the deal on a new MDX. I pointed out the door to the Enclave. He promptly asked if he and his team could take a look. I grabbed a free soda and watched as the entire sales staff poured over the Enclave. 20 min. later they brought me back the keys and could not believe it was a Buick and REAL competition. They could come up with only two slights -- It's a Buick and it does not have Super-Handling AWD.

I guarantee the Acura sales staff perception changed that day, but when the MDX gets cross shopped against a Buick, the Acura sales team will make a sale by noting "It's a Buick". The reverse scenario will not be nearly as effective - perception.
 

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but when the MDX gets cross shopped against a Buick, the Acura sales team will make a sale by noting "It's a Buick".
So, do they realize that "It's a Buick" means that it ranks AHEAD of their precious Acura in reliability???!!!!


In my opinion, the "perception" of a vast majority of "my generation" has been skewed by unfairly comparing GM now to GM in the 80s. What I remember from the 80s about imports is......cheap, tin cans, poor quality, terrible styling, no options, WAY too small.......but that is not what people "perceive" about today's imports, so why is it fair for people to keep comparing TODAY'S GM to the GM of the past, rather than based on the facts of what is out there right now? I personally have experienced as good or better quality, dependability, and customer service from my GM vehicles since my first new one purchased in 1994 as my "peers" who have imports.
 

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Hate to burst the bubble - but I have not drank the rice wine since I purchased a 1969 Datsun 2000 Roadster in 1981. It was a great car if your second car was a tow truck. Since then I have owned almost exclusively American cars (I had a 1990 VW Passat which I purchased new off the lot and then bought it again with repair dollars). I currently own a 1998 Olds Silhouette Van and a 2000 Ford Mustang. Before these cars I owned a 1995 Chevy Blazer and a 1992 Olds Cutlas. Each of these cars had their good points and bad points. The worst of which are the 1998 Olds and the 1995 Chevy - both have major design flaws in the cooling system (as well documented on most every car forum) and GM does not care.

Rather than listen to rumor and gossip, I actually study the business practices of car manufactures as part of my occupation. My comments about GM being pathetic have nothing to do with dealerships - rather the after sales service provided by GM through their consumer services line. My apologies if I was not clear. Facts are that consumers repeat purchase cars manufactured by Japan, than they do any other manufacturer. This is based on solid consumer research. I wish it were not true.

For those that asked or wondered, I had ordered a fully loaded Enclave AWD in Ming Blue and gray interior - only thing I did not get was the engine block heater - sticker came to just under $46.5k. When I found out the center row console was not available until later, I asked the dealer to hold the order (Rydell in Van Nuys, CA - 2nd car I have purchased from them). Last night I went and got my $500 deposit back from them for reasons obvious to those that read this forum.

Facts can be difficult things to deal with for some. Instead of looking introspectively at what emotions are driving the virtual "GM can do no wrong" attitude, people start the name calling (rice wine drinker, nissantoyotamazda something or other). Facts remain facts - I might not like them either, but overall consumer loyalty rests with brands not born in the US. Sure - there are folks that say - I am going to only buy Buick or whatever, but once they get screwed, it may make them think twice. This is not opinion, this is solid consumer research also.

Thanks for the feedback - on both sides, but it is clear, emotions are driving a good deal of the mob mentality here. Expression of those opinions is their right - however, it is fairly important to draw distinction between facts and opinion. Sorry if some were offended.

P.S. An immediate family member worked for a GM division for 29 years and accordingly, I am entitled to the GM discount. Same person drove LaSabre's for years - and I mean over 20 years! When the LaCross did not measure up and the Lucerne (sp?) was not yet released, off to Hundai they went - for the new Sonata. In spite of me trying to talk them out of that decision (the new Sonata is a good car, but who wants to drive a Hundai).
 

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Msinchants, Thank you for the explanation. Sorry you found this experience to be so objectionable. I must ask, with your industry experience and distaste for GM, why did you place an order for the Enclave in the first place?

BTW, without judgment or criticism intended, those who mention name calling by others probably shouldn't use phrases like village idiot, pathetic, or pure stupidity. Just something to think about.
 
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