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dfc101a said:
I might be reading too much into these posts.....

"Everytime I read msinchats posts I think we have a foreign car dealer on the forum" and,
dfc, I find it odd that someone who expresses such a low opinion of GM would buy their product in the first place. That's why I was thinking he was a competitor spamming the thread.

I do agree on the deadline issue. If the rear console was supposed to be available in August they should have found a way to make that happen.
 

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Well, this is certainly an amusing thread. A bit informative too, I guess.

In the end, I have to conclude that the Enclave is just a better overall package than anything else on the market. For me, personally, I would have rather the sticker been three or four thousand higher to have real wood dash and door trim, a bit better plastics quality, a little closer attention to detail on things like lighting and fit/finish of interior pieces, and bluetooth. Oh, and maybe better quality factory carpet and mats, though we always wind up getting some form of aftermarket mats anyway, whether it is for a Yugo or Benz. With the above, I don't think there is any German or Japanese SUV/CUV/wagon on the planet that could have compared not only in seating/room/economy/style/ride/quietness that the Enclave so handily owns, but in out and out luxury and features as well.

But those are minor things, and I do understand that GM has to also cater to a market of current buyers that don't want leather, don't want wood, don't want Navigation and cameras and bluetooth and every gadget known to man. They want performance, space, style, and PRICE. I really wish GM would have made the Buick/Enclave a true luxury flagship brand, and made it clear that the Acadia and Outlook were designed for the "more bang for the buck" crowd. But I'm still amazed that for the price they managed to put together a vehicle that stands up very well against the likes of a Benz GL class vehicle, or Lexus LX.

As for dealerships and customer service, I don't yet know as we haven't had to make a trip to the dealer or call GM about anything yet. I do have to say that our experience with Mercedes dealerships has been a mixed bag.... One we often used out of proximity and convenience doing "respectable" work, and giving a loaner if you really needed one, but perhaps not being the friendliest, especially if your car came from another dealer. Another we have frequented after moving, and it still amazes me that for a dealer that made not a dime off of the purchase of our vehicles (came from another dealer) we get the complete red carpet treatment. And the vehicles aren't even that new, or top of the line (a 2000 ML430, and my wife's 2005 C230 we just sold) - but they have treated us like we drove up in a pair of matching Maybach's.

I guess if our experience with Buick/GM dealers in the coming years is even remotely close we'll be pleased.
 

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Discussion Starter · #43 ·
osli said:
For me, personally, I would have rather the sticker been three or four thousand higher to have real wood dash and door trim, a bit better plastics quality, a little closer attention to detail on things like lighting and fit/finish of interior pieces, and bluetooth. Oh, and maybe better quality factory carpet and mats, though we always wind up getting some form of aftermarket mats anyway, whether it is for a Yugo or Benz. With the above, I don't think there is any German or Japanese SUV/CUV/wagon on the planet that could have compared not only in seating/room/economy/style/ride/quietness that the Enclave so handily owns, but in out and out luxury and features as well.
Osli,
I think you just helped out Buick marketing with the spec.'s for a third Enclave model -- CX, CXL, and Super. The Super could add all of those upgrades, more power, a sport setting for the transmission in addition to normal and trailer modes, and a more sport tuned suspension. With the luxury and performance upgrades, it could not be touched.

As for dealerships and customer service, I don't yet know as we haven't had to make a trip to the dealer or call GM about anything yet. I do have to say that our experience with Mercedes dealerships has been a mixed bag.... One we often used out of proximity and convenience doing "respectable" work, and giving a loaner if you really needed one, but perhaps not being the friendliest, especially if your car came from another dealer. Another we have frequented after moving, and it still amazes me that for a dealer that made not a dime off of the purchase of our vehicles (came from another dealer) we get the complete red carpet treatment. And the vehicles aren't even that new, or top of the line (a 2000 ML430, and my wife's 2005 C230 we just sold) - but they have treated us like we drove up in a pair of matching Maybach's.

I guess if our experience with Buick/GM dealers in the coming years is even remotely close we'll be pleased.
I hope the local dealer is a winner.
 

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Osli,

Put me down for the Super model. Ours could sure use more power and better shifting points. With all the power GM is offering in almost all models, it seems strange to me they'd put something as underpowered as this in such an otherwise fine auto. Hard to figure. And what would it have cost extra to make the passenger seat 8 way power? Or heated second row seats like in our Denali. BTW, the large GM SUV's have done very well in quality and sales as compared to the imports.

Galen
 

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I wonder if the rear heated was because of the sliding mechanism? Couldn't be bothered to figure out a wire snake system that was durable in the time they had?

As for engine power, that can go a lot of different directions. I really like the way companies like Mercedes approach that issue - you can get identical vehicles with respect to luxury and features with a variety of engine choices, from diesel to V6 to two or three variations of V8. Some people want the power, some want the fuel economy. I wish they'd offer the luxury features and packages (CXL, luxury, confidence, nav, etc.) as completely independent of whether you choose the V6 or V8.
 

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The worst of which are the 1998 Olds and the 1995 Chevy - both have major design flaws in the cooling system (as well documented on most every car forum) and GM does not care.
since you wish to state "facts" I find the above comment odd? We had a 1999 Pontiac Montana (same platform as your 1998 Olds Silhouette) and had the cooling system issue with the defective intake manifold gasket. You implied that GM does not care about these flaws, and yet, I received notification from my Chevy dealer of this exact issue when it became a service bulletin within GM. He notified me even though my warranty had expired and wanted to know if I wanted it corrected. GM (the company who doesn't care) paid 100% for replacing the intake manifold gasket and also checked my head gaskets for no charge....and the only problems I had were early indications of a small leak at the intake gasket.

I think we see why people in general are so biased towards imports. So-called "consumer research" companies who mis-represent "problem issues" with domestic vehicles while "glossing over" issues with imports. Most people in the general public who read "consumer research" would never believe that Honda had (and continues to have) MAJOR issues with transmissions in the Pilot, Ridgeline and Odyssey. Another case in point.....I have reviewed "Consumer Reports" reliability ratings on Pontiac Grand Ams, but have NEVER had the issues they state are problem areas.......and my car has 150K miles on it!
 

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I was planning to install heated second row seats this fall aftermarket. Your point is well taken and now I wonder what engineering is required because of the sliding second row. It's amazing how we get comfortable with an option and feel we can't get along without it on a different vehicle. ie. heated second row seats, large V/8 engine, etc.
 

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Discussion Starter · #48 ·
The second row seats could be powered like track lighting using the tracks as they exist. May be a bit much for an aftermarket install though.

For GM, I would think cooled front seats and a power up/down third row would take priority over figuring out how to get power to the second row seats.
 

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Yup. With a power lift-gate, the third row really needs to be powered. And a lot of people would prefer front cooled seats before heated rear. :)
 

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i want BOTH!! :thumb:
 
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I think that gm should be the first to have power second and third row folding seats, ford haas third and gm has second row, how both have power folding, and i wish they would put heated and cooled seats in the first and second rows like the cadillac esclade.
 

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Hey All
Love the forum

Have an 08 CXL loaded Cocoa Metallic. Love it. Nice post by OP here and I agree with most of it but want to chime in on a few things.

The good.
It IS very quiet inside but strangely enough that allows you to "hear" more like the tires thumping when you hit bumps. Overall thought
it is outstanding.

It is a great looking car inside and out and I get a lot of nice comments from people about it.

It drives very well and handles well. It is outstanding in the snow and ice.

It is easy to get in and out of the third row for my kids, and also easy to get the baby in and out of his second row seat. So I'd say lots of room in the back two rows which I really appreciate for a vehicle this size.

I love the Nav and the whole console set up and interface. It looks good, it works well.

Cup holders everywhere!

Not sure what the big deal is on blue tooth. IMHO I don't like it anyway, would rather have a blue tooth ear piece matched to my phone and have the sound and mix right at my head. When I'm talking somebody in their car and they are using the built in blue tooth I can hear way too much road and background noise, so I don't really understand the big deal here.



So here are the things I would comment on that are things that are missing, poor design, or I've had problems with. (I would probably have a list this long if I had a $100K car, so I don't want to pile on but all of these things have bothered me at one time or another.)


The Tranny - even after reprogram it lurches. With this many gears it should be MUCH smoother. This is around town or on the highway.

I don't love the big goofy chrome rims, wish I wasn't in such a hurry to buy and got the other ones I've seen.

Yes, I have noticed a rattle in passenger dash off and on too. Drives me crazy.

The sunroof screen stinks. A luxury car should have one that does not let the sun through AT ALL and is thick and keeps noise out too. Same goes for back screen.

The chrome bezel around the lock manages to reflect the sun directly into my eyes at all times no matter what time of day it is. Thank goodness I'm not a pilot, this is silly. Also, agree the light on the clock is not right. It's too dark and the clock is useless at night and doesn't match the interior.

The stereo really is not that good. Perhaps it has clear sound but come on, for 40K plus I want a killer sound system. This bose system doesn't rock for me, I'm used to MUCH better sound systems.

I agree the dvd screens should be in back of seats and so maybe 3rd row people can't see it, but it is very distracting when it is down.

The seat warmers are not nearly warm enough and take way to long.

Why did my 02 envoy have head light washing system, and this luxury ride doesn't?

GM should have put their excellent hybrid from the big suvs (not the silly one in the malibu, the real one the ALREADY HAVE) in the enclave, acadia, outlook, AND in the Malibue. If they had done that to begin with I'm sure there would be a long waiting list for them.

Agree, LED tail lights would be a big improvement.

I cannot open the back gate inside my garage, kind of a bummer to have to unload in the garage.

As quite as it is, you can sense a rumble or vibration of the engine more than you'd expect, particulary at idle.

I'm not really tall at 5'7" and I feel pretty crampled in front passenager seat. Not much room there at all.

When you use the windshield washers, particularly the heated ones, they spray cleaner all over the hood between the nozzle and the
window. If you have a clean and polished car it really stands out that it makes a mess. This seems like a silly mistake
somebody would have caught before this was released.

No glass lift gate in the back, I liked that a lot in the envoy.


So, yes, that's a long list but overall I LOVE the vehicle, would just like to see that list get some attention. Most of the things seem
minor and I'd pay 3K more to get those things.

Doug M
 

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dfc101a said:
Head Lights. When are they on? Why can the fog lights not be set and left on from day-to-day?
They do tell you -- the very little and not very bright green light on the round knob that control the light is on when the lights are on. It could be more obvious, though.

For the fog lights, probably because in many/most states it is illegal to drive with the fog lights on when it is not foggy. At least it is in MN, according to what I was told! Although I wonder if anyone anywhere got a ticket for this!

dfc101a said:
Passenger Door Sun Screens. With kids, the screens are nice to have and we miss them already compared to our Honda Odyssey.
You mean screens for the windows? The existing tint isn't enough? It sure is enough for me.
 

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jbradfor said:
For the fog lights, probably because in many/most states it is illegal to drive with the fog lights on when it is not foggy. At least it is in MN, according to what I was told! Although I wonder if anyone anywhere got a ticket for this!
In Pennsylvania it is illegal to have fog lights on unless the headlights are also on. It's counterproductive, because most headlights, even on low beam, have little cutoff so the fog bounces much light back into the driver's eyes. Best are headlights with a razor-sharp cutoff, which Consumer Reports considers a negative. However, I used Marchal headlights with sharp cutoffs in France years ago and they were superb in fog. Didn't even need separate foglights.
 

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lingohocken said:
In Pennsylvania it is illegal to have fog lights on unless the headlights are also on. It's counterproductive, because most headlights, even on low beam, have little cutoff so the fog bounces much light back into the driver's eyes. Best are headlights with a razor-sharp cutoff, which Consumer Reports considers a negative. However, I used Marchal headlights with sharp cutoffs in France years ago and they were superb in fog. Didn't even need separate foglights.
not to be negative but that is not true.....I included the motor vehicle code section you speak of for your perusal......

http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter43.pdf
 

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Chubinela said:
The seat warmers are not nearly warm enough and take way to long.
Really? I have to turn mine off after about 3-4 minutes, even really cold. :eek:
I will turn down to the lowest setting for longer periods of time when really cold however. :thumb:
 

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PAPoPo said:
not to be negative but that is not true.....I included the motor vehicle code section you speak of for your perusal......
http://www.dmv.state.pa.us/pdotforms/vehicle_code/chapter43.pdf
Not negative at all, but helpful. I appreciate your eagle-eyed observation.

You of all people should know the peculiar workings of Harrisburg's vehicle nabobs, if I divine your tea leaves correctly. Yet, as I read the DMV's PDF, separate use of fog lamps is restricted to vehicles with snow plow lights. Otherwise, under circumstances when headlights should be on, headlamps are not exempted from being on when fog lights are activated. When there is fog, it would appear that the distance requirement to activate headlights is always going to be in force; it's the nature of fog.

All that lawyerish stuff aside, several years back after I wired accessory fog lamps to go on and off separately, the vehicle was denied state inspection certification (I cross-checked on this at various other inspection shops) until it was rewired so that they were in series with the headlight low beams, with the fog switch being after that point. In plain English, the fog lights could not work unless the low-beam headlamps were on.
 
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