[loganross]

Hi,
It is my understanding that the AWD system for the 08 Outlook has been upgraded in a manner that makes it competitive with the advanced AWD system of the Acura MDX. Is there anyone who has actual information (not guessing or assuming) as to whether the 08 Enclave received the old AWD system or the new AWD system?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Canuck]

Do we know for sure that the Outlook has an upgrade AWD?

 

[Canuck]

Here is the list of changes. Unless they decided not to talk about it.

Changes

(UD7) Ultrasonic Rear Park Assist is now included and only available on all models with (PDC) Convenience Package. (Previously only available on XR models with (PDC) Convenience Package.)
(U2K) XM Satellite Radio is now standard on all models.
(KV1) 115-volt 3-prong household-style power outlet is now included and only available with (PCU) Advanced Audio Package.

 

[loganross]

Yes,
The dealer informed me and I also saw it in the usa today review of the outlook from May (the audio clips portion of the review)

 

[Smokin SRX]

Yes,
The dealer informed me and I also saw it in the usa today review of the outlook from May (the audio clips portion of the review)

I just found out from a Buick tech that the AWD has a system whereby you drive w/ FRONT wheels until a tiny slip is detected and then rear wheels instantly get power. I've been able to get the front wheels to "chirp" slightly on a sandy turn , only to have rears kick in instantly, and propel me forward w/ NO additional slip! Sounds like he's right!

 

[coopermine]

MDX's SH-AWD not only transfer power from front to back but also from side to side as well, hence provide much better handling at the curves.

 

[desgnconcpts]

Here's a video from Honda that talks about SH-AWD: http://world.honda.com/HDTV/news/2004-4040401a/
and this link to the latest version of SH-AWD on the RDX: http://www.acura.com/index.aspx?initPath=RDX_Learn_FeaturesOptions_Performance_SHAWD_SHAWDOverview (this is the overview page -- you need to click on the 2 links that actually explain how this system works).

We would really need someone from GM's Lambda powertrain engineering team to explain to us how GM's system differs from SH-AWD. The explanation a tech gave above is not really anything different from what GM had claimed the Versa-Trak system was supposed to do (Versa-Trak was the system on the Rendezvous, the GM mini-vans with AWD, etc). Any GM engineers reading this and want to respond?

 

[jonv112]

Except that Versatrak was not a full time 4WD system, nor could it be integrated with Stabilitrak or TC.

 

[desgnconcpts]

Except that Versatrak was not a full time 4WD system, nor could it be integrated with Stabilitrak or TC.

Nor is the current system, at least according to the marketing literature for the Enclave:
"Before wheelspin is detected, it automatically delivers power to the wheels that have the best traction. When the condition that could cause wheelspin ends, the system returns power to the front wheels."

This is not any different than how Versa-Trak was marketed -- it is NOT a full-time AWD system -- it is FWD, with electronics/sensors that will shift power F/R when necessary. Since mine is on order and I can't see one at the dealer because they don't have any, if someone wants to climb under the Enclave, my guess is that a lot, if not all, the hardware is very similar if not the same as what the old Versa-Trak system consisted of -- gearotor pumps at each rear wheel. I have read the description of the TSB on the Acadia for the AWD system -- and what was described is essentially the same mechanicals. I will grant you that older vehicles did not have Stabilitrack -- there are clearly more sensors/electronics built in, but from a mechanical point of view, I believe it to be the same system.

 

[jonv112]

But it is a full-time 4WD, with a 90/10 front-bias, and the system can redirect up to IIRC 40% of the power to the rear wheels, whereas the last Versatrak systems could redirect 100% to the rear wheels for a short period of time.

 

[desgnconcpts]

OK, I'll believe that -- it sounds like you know -- but I would really like to know where you found this information? Where is it published, because I could not find anything on the system in the Lambda's? I still believe it is the same basic hardware -- the only difference then, is that there are now more sensors and new programming?

It would be great to point us in the right direction -- I, for one, am staying away from the AWD system as I'm afraid that there will still be too many issues just like the previous version of the versa-trak.

 

[gshields]

Sounds like my Honda Ridgeline. 4WD means front then rear as needed.

 

[jonv112]

The numbers were posted on Acadiaforum.net a while ago, and it also says in my Canadian Acadia brochure that the AWD is full-time, and since all of the Lambdas are mechanically identical, it should apply to the Enclave as well. Also, if the system detects the spare tire has been installed, it will automatically disable AWD.

 

[desgnconcpts]

jonv112,
I've done some subsequent searching and found "some" information that agrees with your post -- I could not find anything more technical on the system beyond the fact that it standardly provides nearly all power to the front wheels and a small portion to the back all the time. So you are correct in that it IS AWD all the time. I found another article that quoted a GM engineer that talked about the reprogramming they had done with the system to all it to more closely mimic the SH-AWD of Acura, driving the outer wheels with more power around corners -- but it didn't specifically state they could do this wheel-by-wheel, which apparently the Acura system can do. The GM system under most circumstances will provide most of the same advantages.

It's interesting that you have far more detail in your Canadien brochure -- also that the system disables when the spare is mounted -- this is EXACTLY the same as the versa-trak system and I believe it still has the same basic mechanicals driving the AWD system. It's the programming, additional sensors that's different.

My concern for this AWD still holds -- we had recurring noise issues in the rear gerotor drives on the rear wheels, only solved by a very expensive flush & fill with special synthetic oil. The next step, we were told, was replacement of the mechanical part -- which, when not under warranty, is very expensive. I believe the same mechanicals are driving this AWD system.

But in the end, I guess someone's need/desire for AWD would have to be outweighed by the assurance of traction under almost any condition. I can tell you we never, ever got stuck or had issue with the traction the system provided under any conditions we encountered in the midwest.

 

[Smokin SRX]

MDX's SH-AWD not only transfer power from front to back but also from side to side as well, hence provide much better handling at the curves.

For discussion: I've driven an 07 MDX with "super handling" AWD and I could not tell any difference at all. I think it's a gimmick (and an expensive one!!) and will go the way of the GM "rear wheel steering " on the pick-up trucks, a couple years ago! I'm not saying there's no benefit, but I don't race my truck around corners on a daily basis , and would pass, if it was offered. Especially at the $$$$ Accura (Honda!) gets!
PS............ Ever look under the rear bumper of an MDX???? What idiot engineered the exhaust pipes to go UNDER the rear axles???? Ditto some Toyota crossovers!! Looks fugly, and if you climb a curb the wrong way...........

 

[Guest]

Hey guys,

I have a little information on this topic from a VERY reliable source at GM. Here is a (slightly paraphrased to protect the innocent) quote on the topic of the new MDXesque system in the 08s. Now let me state that it wasn't made clear if this is included in all three Lambdas, but it was implied...

[The Lambdas] have all the elements that MDX has except for the locking rear differential. Additionally, it is a Bosch system. For '08 [GM has] a calibration that performs like the MDX in that it can apply power when appropriate to the rear differential ... You have to drive the system meaning you must be calling for power, and if you do, you will get better performance than the '07 system since it will send power to the rear if that's appropriate to maintain vehicle control ... with the '07 system, if you begin to lose control, it will begin to reduce power and apply brakes...this is consistent with most systems. The '08 system includes a hardware and a software change so the '08 calibration cannot be applied "backwards" into the '07. The hardware change is in the brake control system and involves memory and logic controls ... both systems provide an extremely high level of safety and performance, but the '08 offers improved performance at the limits!

This was in response to my query for more details on the new system and if it would be, in any way, backward compatible with 07 models. The answer is obviously 'no'

 

[ccaats]

Is this being applied now in ALL 08's? Did they start applying this new AWD system after Aug. 1st along with the new tranny shift algorithms?

 

[Canuck]

Since the Enclave is an 08 then you would think it does have it but it started when the Acad&Out were still 07.

I like the idea that it may have been applied after the break and the 08 were started.

It would be good to know for sure.

 

[Guest]

The details on which models were getting it weren't made 100% clear, but from the full conversation, what I took away from it was ALL THREE Lambdas have this improvement on their 08 models, and none on the 07s. Keep in mind, though, that this sort of change (just like the SH-AWD on Acuras) won't be "felt", or even necessary, 99% of the time. It's the most extreme driving situations that will benefit from such a system.