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Discussion Starter #1
GM announced layoffs today in preparation to going to totally electric cars. Does this spell the end of the Enclaves and other models or will they just become electric. Would you drive an all electric model?
 

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100,000,000% I would.

An all-electric Enclave would really be amazing!

To be clear - I have a Tesla Model 3, and my wife has the Enclave. Nothing would make me happier than to be gasoline-free altogether.

Think about it — the weakest link in the Enclave are the engine and transmission. It handles great, has a beautiful interior and exterior, tons of room .... replacing the drivetrain with all electric would give it a ton of torque, loads of acceleration, a low center of gravity for even better handling , and completely eliminate the 3.6L engine.

What could be better?
 

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The amount of batteries to power an enclave would be quite a lot. Adding even more weight is the electric motor. I wonder how much the drivetrains would differ in weight. Plus most people don’t understand that electric plants burning coal supply the electricity for the batteries in America. (Have any of you seen the meme of the gas tow truck pulling a diesel generator to charge an electric car stuck in the road lol?) Wind, solar and hydro don’t at this point. Basically your giving up one carbon for another. America is a long ways off from sustainable renewable energy. Plus has anyone googles a lithium mine? It’s horrible.

Until America get a reliable renewable energy source, I think switching to electric cars is basically putting the cart before the horse.
 

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Here in NJ, about 60% of our electricity is from natural gas, 32% from nuclear, 6% renewal sources and less than 2% are everything else.

Driving electric instead of burning petroleum products is very clearly a winner.

Now, for lithium, actually studying it shows it’s about the same environmental impact to build a lithium battery as 30 cups of coffee.

Here’s a translation of the German study about it:

https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?depth=1&nv=1&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=https://www.tagesspiegel.de/wirtschaft/tesla-akkus-wenn-elf-avocados-umweltschaedlicher-als-eine-e-auto-batterie-sind/25291904.html

Sounds a lot better than shale and fracking oil, right? Not to mention our imports from regions of the world and regimes I’d rather not get my money.

Now, Enclave specific .... electric motors weigh quite little - the majority of weight is in the battery. With the size of the Enclave, there’s plenty of room under the chassis for a skateboard-style battery. The nice thing about that is how evenly distributed that weight is. It’s not Iike a gas engine, transmission, transaxle etc. where it’s all front loaded. The battery distributed evenly across the chassis actually can improve handling. Would have no issue improving performance and hauling capacity vs the 3.6L engine.

I’d welcome, with open arms, an all-electric Enclave.
 

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Now an all electric E will eliminate the Carbon buildup on the valves, rough idling, misfiring on the non OEM spark plugs, timing chain stretch, oil changes, transmission shudder.
How would a trip from NJ to Florida turn out to be? How long would we need to recharge and how many miles?
 

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Now an all electric E will eliminate the Carbon buildup on the valves, rough idling, misfiring on the non OEM spark plugs, timing chain stretch, oil changes, transmission shudder.
How would a trip from NJ to Florida turn out to be? How long would we need to recharge and how many miles?
So, obviously this is completely hypothetical... but I'll say this - I just planned a route from here in Morris County to Walt Disney World in FL, if I were to drive my Model 3.

The total travel time for 1,111 miles is 19 hours and 33 minutes, including charging stops. The total charging time in that entire trip is 2 hours and 12 minutes; approximately 15 minutes every 3 hours or so at various superchargers. If you notice below, the preference is to not charge to 100% at every stop - usually around 70-80% or so is best. That's the sweet spot for charging speeds; the top end of the battery (whether it's a car, iPhone, remote control airplane, cordless drill or whatever) is a much slower charging rate than the middle. So it's quicker (and better for the battery) to stop once or twice more during the trip than try to get to 100% each time.

Every 3 hours is about when I'd want to stop for a bio-break, or a coffee stop. Each of those Superchargers is at a location with facilities - either something like a WaWa, or mall or something else. None are "just" chargers - there's always something besides the charging stations.

Here's the entirety of the route and the stops along the way. Really not a whole lot different than I'd do in a gasoline car, to be honest.


6319
 

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Of course there will need to be new capacity to power all of those new electric cars. Where does the energy come from. Power plants burning fossil fuel. Wind and Solar won't do it. It takes 26,000 acres of solar panels with no reserve for night or cloudy days to provide the same capacity of one power plant. Plus electric motors wear out and have to be rebuilt too. Batteries are good for 500-1000 charges and are expensive to replace.
 

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Instead of the gas lines back in the 70s, there will be electric charging lines in the future, waiting for the sun to come out and the wind to pick up.
 

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So much misinformation, I don’t even know where to start.

The batteries are rated for 1500+ charging cycles. That’s not number of charges, but a full cycle. That’s 300-500,000 miles, or more. At which time they just don’t hold as much as they used to; it’s not that they suddenly just go dead.
Electric motors, 500k+ miles as well. And replaceable in about an hour in event of failure. Cost about $800 or so.

At an average American driver’s utilization of 12,000 miles/year, a 500k electric drivetrain is 41 years’ worth of driving. Not a bad lifespan. Even at the low end of 300k miles, that’s 25 years. Still excellent.

As for energy, solar isn’t the answer. Photovoltaics haven’t evolved enough. Wind is better than most, hydroelectric is excellent, and yes, nuclear. Fossil fuels still have to be part of the answer, but it doesn’t have to be coal or oil. Natural gas should be primary - it’s by far the cleanest, most abundant and among the cheapest, too. Also domestic, and doesn’t need importing.

Nothing’s perfect, but perfect is the enemy of good.
 
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Yeah, NO. let me drive an electric version of a gas version they cant get right without falling apart. No thanks!!!

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

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The only reason we have the Enclave is for towing. I'll pass on all electric. Be lots of fun stopping every 100 miles on our summer trips to recharge for 30+ minutes because our electric range is cut in half with 4k lbs in tow.

Electric vehicles are getting close but they're just not there yet as a good replacement for gas simply because of the charging times. They make a great 2nd vehicle if you have a gas vehicle as your other option for long road trips allowing you to use the electric only when you won't need to stop mid-route and charge. The example above being listed as acceptable is ridiculous. Stop every 2 hours for 15 to 20 minutes on a long road trip? Who has time for that?
 

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The only reason we have the Enclave is for towing. I'll pass on all electric. Be lots of fun stopping every 100 miles on our summer trips to recharge for 30+ minutes because our electric range is cut in half with 4k lbs in tow.

Electric vehicles are getting close but they're just not there yet as a good replacement for gas simply because of the charging times. They make a great 2nd vehicle if you have a gas vehicle as your other option for long road trips allowing you to use the electric only when you won't need to stop mid-route and charge. The example above being listed as acceptable is ridiculous. Stop every 2 hours for 15 to 20 minutes on a long road trip? Who has time for that?
I agree with you - if you have heavy towing needs, EVs remain to be proven. Beyond that, a road trip in an EV really isn't a big deal... at least not with a decent network of DC chargers.

My example above is a good one - NJ to FL, a total of 2 hours 12 minutes of charging time on a 17 hour drive. Given how much time I save the rest of the year NOT stopping for gas, it's still way ahead of the game as a time factor. Truth be told, when I'm driving, I only want to drive 3-4 hours max between pitstops anyway. If it's a REALLY BIG DEAL not to stop once a year, I can always rent a vehicle. Do you really think a 15 minute stop every couple hours is a problem? I can't go much more than that without wanting to stop to pee and get a coffee or tea. By the time I do my business and get a coffee, it's only maybe 5 extra minutes of charging time?

I like breaking things up a bit when I travel. I'm not on a cannonball run, so I don't mind an extra hour here or there if I see something interesting along the route.

Charging times sound like a big deal, right till you own one... it was my largest concern going into this grand experiment (and yes, I still think of my EV experience as an experiment) - and it's proven to be a whole lot of nothing. Zero charging concerns yet.
 

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The trip to Florida is a good example and it shows adequate infrastructure on a popular route. How about a trip on Route 66, a trip through Death Valley or through the Rockies? Can a non Tesla owner access the website for the map of charging stations?
 

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The trip to Florida is a good example and it shows adequate infrastructure on a popular route. How about a trip on Route 66, a trip through Death Valley or through the Rockies? Can a non Tesla owner access the website for the map of charging stations?
Absolutely! I prefer to use "www.abetterrouteplanner.com" - it does a fantastic job, isn't Tesla specific and much more tuneable than anything Tesla offers on their website.

Here's a route from Irvine CA to Las Vegas - cuts right through Death Valley. No problem - just an 11 minute stop in Yermo.

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And here's Colorado Springs to Salt Lake City UT. I chose the middle route through Vail and Glenwood Springs just to get a little more into the mountains ...

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and beyond the ABRP website, we also have https://www.plugshare.com which lists out so many of the smaller (and thus, slower) chargers ...

It's kinda eye opening how many there are. As much as Tesla's cars get the press, their real game-changing technology is the charging network. It makes all the difference.
 

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The trip to Florida is a good example and it shows adequate infrastructure on a popular route. How about a trip on Route 66, a trip through Death Valley or through the Rockies? Can a non Tesla owner access the website for the map of charging stations?
... and one more, for fun!

6322
 

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GM announced layoffs today in preparation to going to totally electric cars. Does this spell the end of the Enclaves and other models or will they just become electric. Would you drive an all electric model?
No, I wouldn't drive an all electric model, especially at my age. Lol, I don't need to be stuck at a charging station. And also because I regularly take trips to remote areas of the Rocky Mountain states. If I just drove around town all the time, I might be interested.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
use fossil fuel to generate electricity to avoid using fossil fuel.
 

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use fossil fuel to generate electricity to avoid using fossil fuel.
43% of my electricity in NJ is nuclear-generated; 52% is natural gas; the rest is renewable. It's not perfect (I'd rather see the natural gas go down and renewable go up) - but surely a lot better than most of the coal or oil burning plants.

Once I get around to adding solar panels, I'll be essentially carbon-neutral.
 

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GM announced layoffs today in preparation to going to totally electric cars. Does this spell the end of the Enclaves and other models or will they just become electric. Would you drive an all electric model?
No I would not drive an all electric Model. Its alright with me that you do, Save the gas for me, Thanks
 
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