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Anyone know if Buick is planning a hybrid or eFlex version of the Enclave? Based on October's sales trend seems like the Enclave is continuing to be a hot item and would be so much better if they had a more advance powertrain option such as with the new (but limited) Tahoe 2-mode hybrid. I suspect it may even outsell the Acadia and Outlook wtih time and should hold its value well. Good write up in this month's Motortrend SUV of the year report and seemed like it was a very close contender in receiving the award.

I don't own an Enclave yet as I am trying to hold out another year or so although I have to say I LOVED the car both times my wife and I test drove it. My wife is picky about her cars and only likes luxury vehicles but she is crazy for the Enclave wants to sell her 2004 Audi A6 for it. I have a 2004 Volvo XC70 but the current Enclave gets better mileage and drives better. Neither of us have ever owned an American car before but the Enclave is really enticing. We also have a 2nd baby on the way so it would be the perfect family car.

If only it had an advanced hybrid or eFlex type option, we'd buy it today!
 

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If you can wait, you might want the direct injection version of the Cadillac engine that the Enclave has now. It might get slightly better fuel economy with better power.

If you ask me, hybrids add too much complexity and cost for return unless you build a car specifically around the hybrid concept, while E85 is a worthless PR move by GM to buy time before fuel cells or diesel become more acceptable or doable.

TM
 

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Tin Man said:
If you can wait, you might want the direct injection version of the Cadillac engine that the Enclave has now. It might get slightly better fuel economy with better power.

If you ask me, hybrids add too much complexity and cost for return unless you build a car specifically around the hybrid concept, while E85 is a worthless PR move by GM to buy time before fuel cells or diesel become more acceptable or doable.

TM
Welcome to forum NewbieToGM !!

Buy the Enclave now!! Hybrids are nice but ALL of them take 5-7 years for recovering their additional cost to purchase, thru gas savings! Ditto w/Tin Man on E-85. My last 2 GM cars had it and unless you live in the "corn-belt", there are VERY few stations that carry it!
GO Enclave and your wife & kids will be happy and safe :thumb:
 

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I agree fully with Smokin and Tin Man. The hybrids on the large SUV add very few MPG and in fact are just about as much of a PR move as the E85. In Minnesota they are really starting to see the ethanol plants for what they are which is basically a government subsidized program to create jobs and make politicians look good. The environmentalists are starting to recognize that the cost of the ethanol production is greater than the gain. The have actually recorded a lowering of the water tables near the plants as they use soooo much water to create the ethanol, plus the mpgs on ethanol are really much less than on regular gas. Corn is definitely not the most efficient product to use for ethanol, the grasses are better I believe. Even the technology to produce ethanol is in question, but there has been so much financial investment in the plants, that no one wants to admit that. As much as I would like to become independant from foriegn oil, the more I read, the less it seems ethanol is the answer. :(
 
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Smokin SRX said:
Welcome to forum NewbieToGM !!

Buy the Enclave now!! Hybrids are nice but ALL of them take 5-7 years for recovering their additional cost to purchase, thru gas savings! Ditto w/Tin Man on E-85. My last 2 GM cars had it and unless you live in the "corn-belt", there are VERY few stations that carry it!
GO Enclave and your wife & kids will be happy and safe :thumb:
e-85 is useless around here, theres no fill ups for it, plus IT GIVES YOU WORSE MPG, a hybrid is worse for the enviroment because of the battery, the hybrid battery lasts 5 years if your lucky, the battery is between 4-6 k to replace, and you have to dispose of it. the tahoe 2 mode system only brings up the epa mpg from 19 to 23, i would rather have the gas version, and plus the added cost like statied above adds between 5- 10 k to the vehicle, thats a ton of driving to pay it off, suvy hybrids are good for people who want to help the enviroment until they need to replace the battery, deisposing of the battery adds all the bad stuff (sorry i dont know what it really is), now one battery is not bad, but if half a million people own a hybrid in one state then all those batterys have to be disposed of some time.

i would get an enclave now, or if you want to wait, i would also wait for the direct injection or even the v-8 (well it sounds like you want economy so you would rather have the v-6) but the direct injection gets you better mpg anyway.
 

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vegashomes said:
A turbo or regular diesel would be nice.
Neither will ever happen, though.

Like said, the Direct-Injection version of the 3.6L either as an option or standard is quite probable in the future, but no direct or rumored plans for any Hybrid model, etc. These are meaty crossovers, and as is, despite what some say, the 3.6L hits the "sweet spot" in terms of the right amount of power, refinement, and economy. Not a tire burner, not a guzzler, and not a struggler either, but just the right amount of everything for the job as a super luxurious big crossover. Some people will always want more, more, more, but the same would also want more in a 500+ HP Corvette, so you have to see it all in relation.

Expect to see the Direct-Injection 3.6L, either next year or beyond, but out farther, there isn't much more of a change on any horizon. Flex fuel compatibility might also likely come along, with the 3.6L, but as said, availability is still sparse and the benefit--costs less, but sucks more--isn't really much.
 

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caddycruiser said:
Neither will ever happen, though.
We shall see.

The same was said about $100/barrel oil when it was $8/barrel.

Yes, the current Enclave, especially if fitted with a direct injection gasoline engine, is pretty much the best we can do considering current restrictions and market bias. Europe now enjoys a number of FWD people movers that have extremely competent diesels, some even produced under GM, with significantly better power and economy. I don't think they break any new ground in the styling department like the Enclave does, but they are not that far behind.

The current Enclave gets what, around 18-19 mpg overall? That is NOT acceptable, even for this weight/size class. Americans need to get their collective heads from out of the sand and understand that these vehicles cannot continue "as is" for any appreciable amount of time. It wouldn't surprise me if this platform lasts only a decade or so more, if that.

TM
 

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GM already has an engine that fits where the 3.6 liter V6 does and uses it in Europe for its Cadillac CTS!

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/07/13/gm-passenger-car-diesels-coming-to-america/

In the latest Bob Lutz video released on the Fastlane Blog the other day, Vice-Chairman Bob Lutz talked about diesels and didn't seem to exited about the prospects. Toward the end of the video he did mention that some diesels will come to US cars, crossovers and trucks but offered no details. GM did introduce a new 2.9L V-6 diesel at the Geneva Motor Show and has said it wasn't coming to the US. That position may be changing now.

If GM does offer the V-6 it would likely be in premium models like Cadillac and maybe Buick. Since Saturn is now the effectively the US branch of Opel and has been largely Europeanized, it would also be a logical home for diesels, especially in the Outlook crossover which is pretty thirsty with its current gasoline 3.6L V-6.

GM will be showing a diesel variant of the E-Flex system in an Opel body shell at the Frankfurt Motor Show in September and reportedly will also put the same powertrain in a Saturn Aura for the January Detroit Auto Show.

Update: After talking to a spokesman at General Motors, it appears that most of what Automotive News wrote and everyone else is repeating is pure conjecture. For the time being the 2.9L V-6 is a Europe only engine set to debut in the 2009 Cadillac CTS. There are currently no plans to bring this engine to the US market. Of course depending on what happens with regulations (both fuel economy and emissions) and market demand, plans can change. All work on the E-Flex architecture is being done on the Global Compact Car platform (currently known as Delta) and the Aura is built on the larger Epsilon mid-sized platform. With the Saturn/Opel tie-up a Saturn diesel E-Flex is not out the question, but if it happens it will be on something derived from the Astra.
If only the stupid regulators and environmental reactionaries realized that diesels can be/are cleaner than current gassers, things would be looking a lot better for the good ol' USA.

TM
 

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Here's another one:

http://www.autobloggreen.com/2007/06/25/new-gm-diesel-to-get-almost-30-mpg-in-full-size-trucks/

Even though the Senate has now passed a new energy bill that includes requirements for fleet fuel economy average of 35mpg by 2020 we still have a ways to go before the House passes it, the bill gets reconciled and ultimately signed into law. Nonetheless, the car makers have to get down to work and start cranking up the fuel economy of their vehicles, especially the larger trucks. All three of the domestic automakers have announced plans to add new diesel engines for their light duty trucks by the end of the decade with GM announcing a 4.5L V-8 and Chrysler last week mentioning plans to add a new smaller Cummins diesel to their Ram 1500 models.

The problem with the diesels, especially the newer clean diesels, is that they are more expensive to produce than gas engines. During our recent dinner with Gary Smyth of GM he indicated that the total coast of a clean diesel powertrain is about twice that of gas. The diesel engines do work though with the new GM diesel estimated to get close to 30mpg on the highway when mated to a conventional six speed automatic. If the new engine were to be matched up to the Two-Mode hybrid system, mileage in the mid-thirties would not be out of the question for the big trucks but at an added cost of several thousand dollars.
So no, it can and should happen. 30 mpg is achievable now. For the cost of a $40,000 crossover, a more expensive diesel engine can be included without much sacrifice from rear view cameras and 19 inch chrome wheels.

TM
 

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Americans just aren't ready to embrace diesels yet and it's a shame. They still think of the black smoke belching monsters from the 70's. Modern diesel engines have benefitted from the same advances in electronics and controls as gasoline engines have. The old mechanical fuel injection systems are just about gone, replaced with electronic systems that are much more precise. Just look at the new Cummins diesel in the Dodge Ram - it's way quieter at idle than it used to be; it used to sound like an over-the-road diesel truck because that's where the base engine design came from.

Some of the monetary incentive to purchase a diesel has been taken away since diesel has been more expensive than gasoline for about 2 years now. They cost considerably more to build and therefore to initially purchase. But, given proper maintenance, they also will last considerably longer than a gasoline engine; most Americans don't keep their vehicles long enough to benefit from this advantage.

I personally wouldn't object to a diesel in the Enclave but I doubt it will ever happen. We are going to start seeing more diesels in 1/2 ton trucks in the next few years. Maybe diesels will gain more acceptance after the general public gets some experience with these.
 

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BadAV said:
Americans just aren't ready to embrace diesels yet and it's a shame. They still think of the black smoke belching monsters from the 70's. Modern diesel engines have benefitted from the same advances in electronics and controls as gasoline engines have. The old mechanical fuel injection systems are just about gone, replaced with electronic systems that are much more precise. Just look at the new Cummins diesel in the Dodge Ram - it's way quieter at idle than it used to be; it used to sound like an over-the-road diesel truck because that's where the base engine design came from.
In fact, the even newer common rail designs are even more efficient, powerful, smooth, and quiet.
Some of the monetary incentive to purchase a diesel has been taken away since diesel has been more expensive than gasoline for about 2 years now.
Most people aren't Math geniuses. If they took the time to calculate, as I recently did for a trip to NJ for my wife, even when diesel fuel is 20% more than regular unleaded, in similar vehicles (this instance comparing an automatic Civic to an automatic diesel Beetle) the diesel wins.
They cost considerably more to build and therefore to initially purchase. But, given proper maintenance, they also will last considerably longer than a gasoline engine;
This may not be true any more given vast improvements in metallurgy and design of gasoline engines
most Americans don't keep their vehicles long enough to benefit from this advantage.
This is not true since reselling a diesel returns a significantly higher resale value compared to a gasoline version, even with the more premium engine in cars like Mercedes and VW.
I personally wouldn't object to a diesel in the Enclave but I doubt it will ever happen. We are going to start seeing more diesels in 1/2 ton trucks in the next few years. Maybe diesels will gain more acceptance after the general public gets some experience with these.
It may happen sooner if the increased mandatory fuel economy standards stick and oil stays high.

TM
 
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Tin Man said:
We shall see.

The same was said about $100/barrel oil when it was $8/barrel.

Yes, the current Enclave, especially if fitted with a direct injection gasoline engine, is pretty much the best we can do considering current restrictions and market bias. Europe now enjoys a number of FWD people movers that have extremely competent diesels, some even produced under GM, with significantly better power and economy. I don't think they break any new ground in the styling department like the Enclave does, but they are not that far behind.

The current Enclave gets what, around 18-19 mpg overall? That is NOT acceptable, even for this weight/size class. Americans need to get their collective heads from out of the sand and understand that these vehicles cannot continue "as is" for any appreciable amount of time. It wouldn't surprise me if this platform lasts only a decade or so more, if that.

TM
i dont care weather gas goes to 10.00 a gallon, i would still buy the largest vehicles out there and get 10 mpg, the big tuff ness of a truck is to hard to loose, and im sure there are alot of people like me. probably not on here, but out in the usa. i think 18-19 IS acceptable, unless you want to drive a prius that REAL WORLD only gets 35-40 with a 72 HP 3 CYLINDER. what gm needs to do is put the north star v-8 in these, like the Lucerne. our older (sold for enclave) deville had the 4.6 L northstar v-8, thats 300 hp, 360 ft lb of torque and it returned 19 mpg city and 28 highway, i have pics of the dic showing that also. its cylinder cut off was perfect for that, 2-4-6-8 when on the highway it only used 2 cylinders, when you accelerate it instantly goes to 8 cylinders. thats what the enclave needs for better fuel economy. but i dont care what fuel economy it gets, there are some people like you who will, but the fact is WE have no immediate control.
 

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i dont care weather gas goes to 10.00 a gallon, i would still buy the largest vehicles out there and get 10 mpg, the big tuff ness of a truck is to hard to loose.

Where is Al Gore when you need him ;)
 
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al gore is the number one person i HATE on this earth, not just because he is ahipacrit who lives in a masion and drives an suv and tells US to be eco frendly, but i just hate is attude. how he feels he should control how we live life
 

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Rollin Thunder + Black Bandit said:
our older (sold for enclave) deville had the 4.6 L northstar v-8, thats 300 hp, 360 ft lb of torque and it returned 19 mpg city and 28 highway, i have pics of the dic showing that also. its cylinder cut off was perfect for that, 2-4-6-8 when on the highway it only used 2 cylinders, when you accelerate it instantly goes to 8 cylinders. thats what the enclave needs for better fuel economy. but i dont care what fuel economy it gets, there are some people like you who will, but the fact is WE have no immediate control.
Um, you do realize that NO Northstar V8, or for that matter any GM engine aside from the 5.3L, 6.0L, and 3.9L, has active cylinder displacement?

The car mentioned, like the Deville, would get the mileage it did because the Northstar was matched up to gears that kept it barely running while at cruising speeds, and the car itself wasn't heavy enough to put much of a huge strain on a larger V8, especially at speed. Not to say a similar engine wouldn't do something similar in an Enclave, but it still also would have the potential to suck down more gas at times just because of the extra liter of displacement.

So, like I said before, no diesel or Hybrid will ever be coming in this current generation of the Lambdas--not that either would be a bad thing, they just won't happen. Expect further development of the 3.6L, and possibly one day the initially rumored V8, but nothing else. In the next generation, maybe, but not in the current.
 

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Rollin Thunder + Black Bandit said:
al gore is the number one person i HATE on this earth, not just because he is ahipacrit who lives in a masion and drives an suv and tells US to be eco frendly, but i just hate is attude. how he feels he should control how we live life
At least he can spell :D
 
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caddycruiser said:
Um, you do realize that NO Northstar V8, or for that matter any GM engine aside from the 5.3L, 6.0L, and 3.9L, has active cylinder displacement?

The car mentioned, like the Deville, would get the mileage it did because the Northstar was matched up to gears that kept it barely running while at cruising speeds, and the car itself wasn't heavy enough to put much of a huge strain on a larger V8, especially at speed. Not to say a similar engine wouldn't do something similar in an Enclave, but it still also would have the potential to suck down more gas at times just because of the extra liter of displacement.

So, like I said before, no diesel or Hybrid will ever be coming in this current generation of the Lambdas--not that either would be a bad thing, they just won't happen. Expect further development of the 3.6L, and possibly one day the initially rumored V8, but nothing else. In the next generation, maybe, but not in the current.
i didnt know that, i just though there was no way it could other wise. and to add to that the only 5.3 and 6.0 WITH MDS is the gmt 900.
 

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One of the big lures for hybrids in So. California was car pool lane - they don't give out passes for that anymore here.....buy it now! :blob:
 

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vegashomes said:
At least he can spell :D
Yeah but at least it makes sense :rofl: That was a very interesting attempt at "creative spelling" :angel:
 
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