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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I remember seeing a post about this a month or so ago but I'm not sure if the concensus was something is wrong and should be looked at or it's just an Enclave thing. I went to the ATM and there was only a slight incline of less than 15 degrees. I had the car in park and once I took my foot of the brake I rolled forward atleast 8 inches b/c I bypassed the machine. Should I just plan on having the roll or is it something to look into?
 

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Enclavious said:
I remember seeing a post about this a month or so ago but I'm not sure if the concensus was something is wrong and should be looked at or it's just an Enclave thing. I went to the ATM and there was only a slight incline of less than 15 degrees. I had the car in park and once I took my foot of the brake I rolled forward atleast 8 inches b/c I bypassed the machine. Should I just plan on having the roll or is it something to look into?
I have not seen this with mine nor noted any posts, but I could have missed that. 8 inches is a lot to move forward enough that you could hit something. I would have it looked at myself especially if it more than a one time thing.
 

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The post a few weeks ago was an individual who was in drive on a slope as if they were sitting at a light. They commented their vehicle would roll back and not stop if they lifted their foot from the brake while the vehicle was still in drive.

The thread then wandered off to people commenting on the vehicle rolling forward/backward after shifting to park. 15 degrees is actually a pretty large angle, I would expect quite a bit of roll if you really were on that steep of an angle.
 

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Did you put the parking brake on too? That sounds scary!
 

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The previous thread did wander, and as I recall, we never got good follow up from the originator.

Try duplicating the situation under safe circumstances. Obviously, you had to estimate the slope of the incline and length of the roll from inside the car. A bit of transmission slip occasionally on a good slope wouldn't bother me too much; but you shouldn't feel uncomfortable. If so, find a way to duplicate it for your service advisor.

I assume you did NOT have the parking brake applied, since you should never need it for a drive up window!
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
No, I didn't set the parking brake, never have at an ATM. I may be overestamating the slope if 15 degrees sounds like a large incline. The incline is slight. I'll be at the ATM again soon and see what happens. The parking lots are generally flat here so I haven't experienced any rolling while parking.
 

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Could it also have been that you were on a transition (seam) in the concrete from a level section to a angled section or it was uneven. I was just thinking if you were on a transition or the concrete was unlevel, that could have caused the roll. I noticed when I am backing into my garage, if I stop on the edge of the garage floor which is maybe 1/2-1 inch higher than the driveway it will roll forward a bit to the lower concrete area.

In terms of angle, gas stations are controlled to a 6% grade for for the ground angle which is about 3.4 degrees. I wouldnt expect an ATM driveway to be much greater than 5 degrees. Believe me if you were on a 15 degree angle you would know it, it is actually quite difficult to get out of a vehicle that is parked on a 15 degree slope. I know first hand from some vehicle testing.
 

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jerlem1 said:
Believe me if you were on a 15 degree angle you would know it, it is actually quite difficult to get out of a vehicle that is parked on a 15 degree slope. I know first hand from some vehicle testing.
Whenever anyone speaks about inclines I tend to bite my tongue. Someone here mentioned being on a 45° incline a few months ago. I don't think so. Aren't most steep grades on mountainous interstates something like 6°-8° grades?
 

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zman said:
Aren't most steep grades on mountainous interstates something like 6°-8° grades?
Yeah pretty much.
 
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i hate mountains, but i have to drive them, the hight thing freaks me out, only thing that really can stop me cold, is hights. :confused: :confused: :confused:, but the biggest grade thing i have seen is 10%
 
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zman said:
Whenever anyone speaks about inclines I tend to bite my tongue. Someone here mentioned being on a 45° incline a few months ago. I don't think so. Aren't most steep grades on mountainous interstates something like 6°-8° grades?
enless they put ski's on the enclave and took the wheels off and went snow boarding, i dont think so. :angel:
 

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this is rac, it was my origional post on oct 25th concerning the enclave roll back. Well the dealer and the nice GM rep on the phone both dismissed the problem as normal. The GM man did suggest we go back to the dealer and make some kind of a deal on another car. We love the enclave except that it will not hold on a slight grade either going forward or backing up. I think it is a design failure and should have a recall. Other cars in the same class have a hillside assist feature to stop the roll back. We are eventually going to film this problem in our own driveway and post it on u tube. would like to hear from others who have the same problem.
 

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rac said:
this is rac, it was my origional post on oct 25th concerning the enclave roll back. Well the dealer and the nice GM rep on the phone both dismissed the problem as normal. The GM man did suggest we go back to the dealer and make some kind of a deal on another car. We love the enclave except that it will not hold on a slight grade either going forward or backing up. I think it is a design failure and should have a recall. Other cars in the same class have a hillside assist feature to stop the roll back. We are eventually going to film this problem in our own driveway and post it on u tube. would like to hear from others who have the same problem.
Hi, I was a answerer to your original post. I said that my Enclave as well as my other autos, all roll, a bit, if foot is off brake, at a light/stop sign, etc. while in Drive/Reverse. Found it quite normal, especially on an incline! I must hold the brake, then hit gas quick, when ready to pull-out, to prevent a roll-back. Same as my other autos IMHO.

However ,the thread became confused with rolling when first releasing the brake, after putting tranny in PARK, as when parking. Now that's a big roll!! I roll about 4-7 inches sometimes, where my other vehicles roll 2-3 inches max! I almost rolled into the parked car in front of me, as soon as I released the brake, while already in Park. The parking pawl doesn't catch too fast, it seems. As long as I know it, I can handle, but it IS noticeably more than my Yukon and Chrysler van! Just be advised ;)
 

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my wife and I do not find this normal for a automatic transmission. If it was a standard with the clutch in, I would agree. Our enclave will roll in the opposite direction that the transmission is in 10 feet or as long as the incline is when the brake is released! When we first noticed it we were on an incline at a busy maul and the enclave rolled back into a crosswalk full of people. the kids in back yelled, "mom, what are you doing!" I think there must be something wrong with our enclave transmission as no one else has this problem to the same extent that we do. Just bought an H3 and that 5000 pounder doesn't move at all. So we have to use a 2 foot brake/gas technique like it was a standard. disappointing to say the least for a brand new 40K Buick's best effort. And then to have both the dealer and the nice GM rep dismiss it like we were nuts is plain bad business. Buick's big 100k mile powertrain warrantee is not worth the paper it is written on..... But we really do love everything else about this car.
 

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I dont know if its a lack of clarity in communicating the problem to GM, but you seem to describe it quite well here and that is definately not normal. Like I said in you old post, I came to a stop at a light with a angle of about 5 degrees which would be enough to cause the condition you had. The vehicle did not roll back even an inch when I took my foot off the brake and left it in drive. I would recommend you take the video you mentioned above and share that with your dealer. I can certainly understand your frustration, because your condition is not right nor is it "nature of the beast" since mine does not do it. I tested it specifically for the purpose of responding to your post. It is an unsafe condition that should be addressed. Best of luck to you in getting this resolved.
 

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OK, RX, lets be more careful this time. For my part, I promise to only deal with one issue per note.

Say I am at a stop light, foot on brake, automatic transmission in "D" or "L" (but not "P!"), no parking brake. If I take both feet off the pedals, I would expect the car to creep forward, even on a level surface. But I would not expect it to creep backward! That would be impossible behavior with a stick, and I've never experienced it with any traditional automatic transmission. It is theoretically possible with "shift-by-wire", but it should be ruled out by the hardware and software.

However, since it is a bad habit to remove your foot from the brake while the transmission is engaged in any gear except "P", I suppose a driver could learn to live with it by keeping the foot on the brake, where it belongs.
 

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Now for the OTHER problem, if there is one.

Say I am in my parking spot, foot on brake, automatic transmission in "Park", no parking brake. If I take both feet off the pedals, I would not expect the car to creep in either direction more than a "shudder" while the transmission locks. Does anyone report that this happens?
 

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While I just got my Enclave a week ago, and have not actually tested for this, I think I can add some helpful info. I rebuild Torque Converters for a living. The condition you are referring to, while in drive, is caused by the torque converter. The torque converter acts like the clutch in a standard. It is what makes driving an automatic possible. It allows the engine to spin while the car is stopped. It has a certain rpm at which it transfers the power to the transmission. I custom build performance converters for racing applications and I raise the rpm at which it transfers the power. This allows the engine to be in the power band when it starts moving, giving it more power. The condition you are referring to happens while on a steep incline gravity overcomes the power being transfered to the transmission and you roll back. The only way to fix this is to redesign the converter or raise the idle RPM, both of which are probably not going to happen. I have not noticed anything abnormal yet except delayed downshifts, which I am getting used to.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
Praierwind, yes, that is exactly what occured in my scenerio. I had to lean up over the door a bit b/c I find it hard to reach the ATM with the door height. As soon as I did that the car moved forward and was in park. It actually scared me enough to say what the **** and I don't usually curse in front of my 2yr old. It rolled enough that I had to back up a few inches to be able to utilize the ATM. I have not paid attention in the past if there is a concrete transition seam and this was the first time I have been there in my Enclave. I know I've never experienced the same effect in our Trailblazer or Odyssey, at the exact ATM.
 
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Smokin SRX said:
Hi, I was a answerer to your original post. I said that my Enclave as well as my other autos, all roll, a bit, if foot is off brake, at a light/stop sign, etc. while in Drive/Reverse. Found it quite normal, especially on an incline! I must hold the brake, then hit gas quick, when ready to pull-out, to prevent a roll-back. Same as my other autos IMHO.

However ,the thread became confused with rolling when first releasing the brake, after putting tranny in PARK, as when parking. Now that's a big roll!! I roll about 4-7 inches sometimes, where my other vehicles roll 2-3 inches max! I almost rolled into the parked car in front of me, as soon as I released the brake, while already in Park. The parking pawl doesn't catch too fast, it seems. As long as I know it, I can handle, but it IS noticeably more than my Yukon and Chrysler van! Just be advised ;)

the enclave and acadia, are the only two vehicles we have that roll when you release the brake (except the manual one), we dont have mountains but there are a couple of hill for some reason, and sitting at a light on a hill you NEED to hold the brake, but in any other car you dont need to really do anything once your stopped you can let go of the brake because the power put out is enugh to stop you from moving back but when not in low gear (which the enclave does not really have), but , not the enclave that ROLLLLLLLS.


the other thing i really dont like is the roll when you park, i have a way to stop it when in the garage, but is scarry to just let the brake go if there is no median in front of the car when you park, because it could just roll right in to the car infront of it, so i back in when theres no median.

the other thing is parking in the garage, its going to damage the cabnits and the bumper, i have not tried to see if the parking brake helps though, but just to be safe when i pull in the garage i have someone throw a 2x4 across the front tires. works well
 
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