[coopermine]

OK, after reseraching half of the Internet and using a tons of calculators, I still can't come up with the right lease payment. I created a calculator using the most common explanation available and still my payment is about $36/mo less than what the dealer has been quoting me. That's $1416.09 after 39 months!

Can anyone double check these for me ? Thanks

MSRP $44,965.00
Selling Price $40,893.00
Other fees $1,312.50 (acquistion fee, Security Deposite & DMV)
Tax Rate 8.625%
Interest Rate 8%
Residual 62%
Residual Value $27,878.30
Lease Term 39 Months
Depreciation Cost $13,014.70
Trade In / Down Payment $5,000.00
Monthly Usage $239.16
Monthly FC $229.24
Monthly Payment $468.40
Tax $40.40
Monthly Payment with Tax $508.80

The dealer is quoting me $545.11 / mo

Selling price includes Supplier Price ($41,893) and $1000 Conquest.

 

[zman]

I don't lease vehicles so I am not sure about the actual process and numbers involved but I did do a Google search and entered your posted numbers into the calculator and it told me the payment should be slightly less than you say it should, and a lot less than the dealer.

The number was about $495. Edmunds says $505.

 

[desgnconcpts]

Coopermine,

It's likely that the problem is not knowing how NY sales tax is figured in to your lease. Here in IL, not only do you get whacked with paying 100% of the sales tax (as if you were buying it), even though you only are using a portion of the vehicle's life and will turn it back in -- but there are other fees that are taxable as well -- you get taxed on any doc fee plus a fee for title or transfer evidently is taxable as well. We also have county tax that has to be figure in.

One comment before anything else -- do NOT put $5,000 down, either on a trade or via a check that you hand the dealer. Why? You can find this out elsewhere too if you look, but if your Enclave were wrecked and totaled by the insurance company, the insurance company does not pay YOU -- they pay the leasing company. In this case, GMAC if you're leasing through GM. So, any money you've put into the deal beyond your lease payments (in my case here, including IL taxes) are GONE, GONE, GONE!!! Even though the Leasing Company is responsible for the taxes (because they actually own the vehicle and are renting it to you, they pay along whatever sales tax would have to get paid to you (again, in IL). In other places, you are taxed on just the lease payment or the % (RV) of the vehicle you're using. So, whatever you do, don't put money down or trade a car in. If you do trade, have the dealer cut you a check for the vehicle, otherwise you do have a risk of losing that "investment" which you will never get back.

As far as leases -- you can easily calculate by hand (literally) --
The formula is:
1. Capitalized Cost (the price you negotiate plus any other extra fees) - Residual Value (always based on MSRP) so in your case:
40,893 + 1312.50 = 42,205.50 (cap cost) - 5,000 (cap cost reduction) = 37205.50 - 27,878.30 (MSRP of 44,965 x 62%) = 9,327.20 / # of months (39) = $239.16 (this is the depreciation or "rent" each month for use)

This then gets added to this:
2. 37,205.50 (Cap Cost) + 28,878.30 (Resid Value, 62% of MSRP) = 66,083.80 x .00333 (Money Factor, this x 2400 = 7.992% Interest) = 220.06 (this is how much interest you're paying to use their money to buy the car and let you rent it)

Your lease -- without taxes taken into account -- 239.16 + 220.06 = $459.22

You can capitalize the cost of taxes and any fees -- it simply gets added into the calculation above -- there's no reason to walk out of the dealership paying anything more than the 1st month's payment -- any license fees, etc can all be included in your lease payment. The calculation is simple but most people get really confused by it. What you really need to know is how taxes are calculated and taken into account on a lease where you live. On entire value of Enclave (your selling price), on the amount of vehicle you're using up, or on the lease payment itself. Then this amount can be added into the lease for a nothing down payment. It truly is the way to go if you are going to lease.

Hope this helps.

 

[zman]

Kind of makes my answer look simple minded. :-[

 

[desgnconcpts]

Hey Zman,
No reason to get mad -- I'm just trying to help out ;D
I'm hoping seeing the simple calculations that are involved will help anyone that wants to lease -- it always appears like a "black art" and the dealers aren't helpful. I do know, however, that this is exactly the way you can figure out your payment to the penny -- and it's always nice to know how to figure it out so that you're not hosed by the F&I guys. There are always so many numbers that your head spins when looking through a lease document.

GMAC is good, though -- there's GAP protection and they are pretty lenient on "wear & tear" -- I try not to lease beyond 36K miles, cause by then you may be needing new tires, possibly brakes and some other stuff. No need to put money into a car that you're not keeping! That's the beauty of leasing (and why lots of people like BMW's warranty, because they cover wear & tear, including brake pads, rotors, wiper blades, etc) but a GM lease is fine with low enough miles to keep you from laying out cash for those items.

 

[coopermine]

Thats the thing, I can't get the same payment amount using different sites / explanations and calculators. Looks like Edmunds is close to what I am coming up with a 5-10$ difference is fine but $36 is not!

NY state charges taxes on the usage not on the entire value of the vehicle.

The dealer is throwing some "free" wear & tear protection plan, i.e, whether I like to get it or not it has not impact on the deal, free? I am very positive not!, and may be that is the hidden cost that he didnt tell me. We spent about half an hour on phone doing different calcs. He offered me that he will show me his computer and the calcuator he is using is based off of a GMC leasing program and there is nothing hidden.

Desngconcpts: In your second step, to my knowledge you would add selling price to the residual value then times it with the money factor not the cap cost. Thats why my Finance Charges are 229.24 and the total payment is $468.40 before Taxes. 468.40 x 1.08625 = 508.80 with tax.


So I will find out why we are that much off.

Thanks for your help guys.

 

[comiccolec]

By the way, I confirmed that the Conquest Incentive is NOT available if you are using the GM Supplier Pricing. Supplier discount specifically does not allow this incentive if you are buying or leasing with the supplier price.

The time it took me to find this out an Enclave I was trying to buy was bought out from under me at MSRP. Crazy. At least I have my order still in the system. I am being told it could take another 6-12. I am not sure if that is WEEKS or MONTHS. Just kidding.

 

[desgnconcpts]

Hi Coopermine,

To answer your question -- that last step is whatever is being capitalized x the money factor is your interest cost per month. Capitalized cost is really the selling price PLUS any other fees, taxes, that you decide to add into the cost of the lease. For example, when I leased my Audi, here's what was included in my capitalized cost:
State Taxes, Acquisition Fee, State Plate Transfer Fee, Title, Doc Fee

In your case, if you're really putting $5K down or trading and getting $5K, then you subtract out that $5K from your selling price and also add those other fees. Make sense?

The MF is correct, that I know for sure -- it went up from 7.2% to 7.992%.

Re your NY taxes, if I understand you correctly, you're charged on usage -- is that MSRP - Residual Value? Or Selling Price - MSRP? Again, should be a simple calc and then that amount CAN be added back into your lease, along with other fees, so that you have no money down.

And without sounding like a broken record, I'd really recommend NOT putting $5K into the lease up-front. If you have more questions, I'll try to help. But I think you're best off working the calculations on paper; this way you have a trail of the numbers and actually KNOW how each item or element will affect the overall lease cost.

 

[desgnconcpts]

By the way, I confirmed that the Conquest Incentive is NOT available if you are using the GM Supplier Pricing. Supplier discount specifically does not allow this incentive if you are buying or leasing with the supplier price.

The time it took me to find this out an Enclave I was trying to buy was bought out from under me at MSRP. Crazy. At least I have my order still in the system. I am being told it could take another 6-12. I am not sure if that is WEEKS or MONTHS. Just kidding.

That's correct about Conquest & Supplier -- what some dealers have been willing to do is come close to Supplier price, not use Supplier Price designation, so that you can use Conquest.
I see that you are having about the same luck as me -- maybe they're putting gold bullion in all the little cubbies when they ship them out ;D and that's why people will pay Sticker! We haven't ordered yet -- I'm still trying to get a dealer to sell me something in stock @ supplier, but so far, no luck.

 

[zman]

Hey Zman,
No reason to get mad -- I'm just trying to help out ;D

Heck, I wasn't mad. Your answer was in depth, mine was simply trial and error. It just made my answer seem rather simple is all. :cheers:

 

[desgnconcpts]

Zman, great to hear you weren't mad! :thumb:

I can still remember trying to get through my 1st lease -- looking back, I know I paid way more than I should have -- unfortunately, lessons learned the hard way. Hopefully anyone needing to lease will take the time to learn how it works.

 

[coopermine]

I agree with 5K down thingie. I will see if they can write me a check fo 5K and I can walk away with paying first month's payment. Then add that 5000/39 from the stash and lump it with the monthly payment. The only thing is it will look too much. It is hard to believe already that I will be paying closed to 545/mo on a stinking lease, not paying 5K upfront will bring the payment close to $675 i guess. It will come out pretty much the same either way. I see the risk involved there.

My theory is, if the cars get totalled, then chances are I will be totalled as well, hence no need for my wife to have the second car at that time she will be collecting some life insurance and won't looking back at mere 5K.

And if it gets stolen, since it is pretty new, i dont think the car jackers are going to break it into pieces and sell 'em in the junkyard, hence slight chance of recovery in one piece.

 

[desgnconcpts]

Hi Coopermine -- I know what you mean about the lease payment -- it's hard to stomach a payment that high unless you're in a 50K, 60K vehicle. Just as an FYI, I did my own calculations last night to see what leasing would cost me - both 24 mo and 36 mo - looked at 12K and 15K yr. Ready to fall over? With having to pay the IL tax on FULL VALUE of the selling price, on a fully loaded AWD CXL, we're talking $867 mo for 24/15K, $832 mo for 24/12K, $740 mo for 36/15K and $717 for 36/12K!!! Those numbers are simply staggering.

I recently priced out a $52K sticker Q7 for 36/15K and the lease on that was $750 mo -- and that was including the Audi Care maintenance plan!

While the residual values are pretty decent on the Enclave, the lease rate is not attractive at all at nearly 8%. Personally, I am leaning more towards a buy than a lease even though I'd rather not. If I put the value of my trade into a buy with no other money down, at GMAC's 5.9% for 36 mos my payment would be about $1,123 per month -- or about $383 more than the 36/15K lease. As I said, for me it's a tough call because we're talking a vehicle with a sticker of $45K.

On the bright side, though -- I checked with my State Farm agent on insurance -- I was floored because it was not much more than current insurance on our Olds and about $100 less every 6 mos than the Audi. So they evidently recognize the safety built into it.

 

[shappy]

I recently priced out a $52K sticker Q7 for 36/15K and the lease on that was $750 mo -- and that was including the Audi Care maintenance plan!

A bit OT, but the Audi Care plan actually adds 1% to the residual, and on a vehicle as expensive as the Q7 it totally pays for itself and may even lower the payment a couple of $, depending on how heavily optioned it is.

For anyone looking at an Enclave and is wanting to lease, my advice would be to wait, if you can. Give it a couple of months to see what sales do. If they start to level off or even drop, lease rates will likely drop. As high as they are, I doubt they will go further.

Also, have your dealer check with other lease companies like Chase or get quotes from websites like www.leasecompare.com to see if more competitive payments are available.