[lisaoleary]

Is this a standard number or does it depend on your credit rating or what (we have great credit)? Does it vary by leasing company? Thanks to dsgnconcept (I am sure I mispelled that) I just found my Enclave, and filled out paperwork to be finalized when it arrives in a week or so -- we are not sure about leasing or paying cash (come concern about purchasing a first year model as far as reliability and resale goes). We got our GMS Pricing (36K) - yeah (only 15 miles away from the dealer charging MSRP ++++) -- and the residual value looks great 60% but the lease rate is 9%. Is that negotiable? Does it change from week to week? I am in Los Angeles if that makes a difference.

Also - anyone who leased get the smart lease protection -- it would be $599 and is supposed to cover 5K worth of lease end damages, etc. Sounds fishy to me, but we never lease.

Thanks to dsgnconcept for keeping me focused on the Enclave and to anyone who can help me with this final issue!

Lisa - who just agreed to a platinum cxl with ebony interior - loaded with everything but dvd (my kids can use their portable on long trips - they watch enough tv) :blob: :blob: :blob:

 

[desgnconcpts]

Congrats Lisa,
I am really happy for you -- and you got your Supplier pricing too! It has only been through this forum (thanks Admin!) that I have found a lot of good info and put it together what I already knew. I've leased a number of vehicles (for myself and my Dad) -- and there have been some terrific mentors on various forums that shared their knowledge.

Lisa -- if you decide to lease -- DO NOT put any cash into the lease. You can do some searching, but the reason is that when you lease, YOU are NOT the owner, the leasing company is. GMAC leases are great in that they have what is called GAP protection -- if you carry the minimum insurance they ask (I think it's 100k/300k liability, etc), and you get into an accident and the insurance company "totals" your vehicle -- the insurance company will pay GMAC (the leasing co) and NOT YOU. So that means, all these leases where you see money down -- it's money down alright -- money right down the drain.

Yes, your lease payment will be higher as a result, but you will be out of pocket whatever amount you've put down. The leasing company will not and is not obligated to return that money to you -- regardless of whether it's for state taxes, fees, or simply to "buy down" the payment to a lower monthly amount. Please, if you don't believe me, look this up. Put everything you can into the lease and put no money down except the 1st month's payment. You are merely "renting" the Enclave for however many months you agree to lease -- and you don't want ANY of your money tied up in the lease. If the payment is "too high" -- then you shouldn't lease, it's really that simple. You have to hop over the fact that doing this WILL make your payment a lot higher but you will correspondingly not be taking any money out of the bank either (you know, a big chunk, whether 5K or 10K or whatever amount).

Likewise, you should NOT, if you have a trade, put the trade against the lease. Have the dealer cut you a check or sell it yourself. Yes, you may come up short if there's a tax advantage to trading in against the price of a new vehicle, but you don't want to put a $10K or $15K trade because it's effectively like writing a $10,000 check to the dealer. Again, total that car, GMAC gets paid and you literally have LOST your $10,000!!!

Now, as far as the lease rate -- I believe 9% is the rate, that's what I was just quoted (finding this out for my Dad, his lease is up in 3 mos and he thinks he wants an Enclave too); plus, I am still deciding whether to lease or buy; haven't decided yet.

The other info you'll need is: 36 mos/15,000 mi a year, residual value is 60%; if you need 36mo/12,000 yr, resid is 62%, if you need 36mo/10,000 yr, resid is 63%
A 39 month lease is available and also pretty attractive: 39mos/12K year @ 62%

Here's a great link: http://www.leaseguide.com/calc.htm, this will help you calculate the lease. However, be VERY careful re taxes -- find out how this is figured in California. You'd be best off using this site without trying to calc tax until you know how it's handled -- it will give you the "raw" lease cost as a comparison for you to use. There's lots of info in various places (Edmunds is good place for that in the Car Leasing section) to educate yourself about leasing.

If you have more questions, just ask -- if I have the answer or can point you in the right direction, I will.

For me right now, I think I might have found a dealer that has an allocated vehicle that I could use to order my Enclave instead of waiting forever for my dealer to get an allocation (he seems to think September, but I have no way to know for sure -- I will find out more on Monday. Wish me luck, it seems the tide is starting to turn for some folks (finally).

 

[lisaoleary]

desgnconcpts - thank you SO much....my salesperson is now trying to "shop" for a better interest rate for me - let's hope he comes up with something....maybe we should just pay cash for it, saving all interest rates!

we are putting 0 down - well - just first month, tax & registration, and we are going to sell my husband's car on our own...you are 100% correct on all points!

i will be keeping my fingers crossed that you end up with your Enclave as soon as possible and watch the board for the great news on MONDAY!!!.. i will keep you posted as to what happens with this interest rate thing...

now, i need to research this smart protection thing -- sounds like a gimmick to me!

lisa

 

[desgnconcpts]

Also - anyone who leased get the smart lease protection -- it would be $599 and is supposed to cover 5K worth of lease end damages, etc. Sounds fishy to me, but we never lease.

Lisa,
You're welcome -- I'll certainly post news asap.

Re your "fishy" comment -- it IS -- don't do it. GMAC is pretty good as far as leases go with wear and tear. Go here: http://www.gmacfs.com/us/en/personal/automotive/leasing/index.html
see those links on the right hand side -- there are PDF's and info re wear and tear, what they consider normal, etc. My Dad has had 3 leases -- takes good care but isn't crazy with the vehicles he's leased, after all they're not his. Never had a charge via GMAC.

I believe your "lease protection" is a gimmick where they will try to sucker you into paying for something you don't need. How much is it? Put that much away in the bank, earn interest and if you need to make a few repairs, I'll bet it will cover it twice over -- and you'll have the rest (or all, is my bet) if you don't need it, which I don't think you will.

Since you bought at Supplier, they're trying to find some way of making some more money off of you. And re the taxes and license fees -- those CAN be added in to the lease, it simply increases your capitalized cost -- don't let them tell you you can't do this -- GMAC will most certainly let you. My Dad drove off 2 years ago with a $37K truck (and here in IL, you pay FULL taxes as if purchased, so that was added to the lease, capitalized and part of monthly payment) -- and paid only his 1st payment of $475. I just leased an Audi A4, did the same thing, drove off the dealer's lot with a car that stickered for $37K and wrote them a check only for 1st month.

Personally, if I were going to lease, I would not do it with anyone but GMAC -- and I doubt anyone else will give you a much higher resid value now anyway -- so I would really try to sway you away from a bank lease. Each bank sets up their own wear and tear policy and you could be in for a nightmare having to try and read all the fine print.

Good luck -- and BTW, great color combo, exact one we are planning to order or try and buy!

 

[lisaoleary]

Thanks again for all the information desgnconcpts...You are really helping us out through this process...At this point I am leaning towards just paying cash...i am thinking that the lack of any financing may make up for any excess interest rate charges, etc...I am also thinking that if the bank (gmac) is willing to say 60% residual, that this thing is really going to hold its value (its there job to err on the side of caution, right?) and then hope that these new jd power ratings on reliability holds true for this new model year vehicle!

Have a great weekend desgnconcpts!

Lisa

 

[desgnconcpts]

I had been quoted 9% as the interest rate on a lease and recently found out that not only are dealers trying to take advantage of the Enclave's short supply through not honoring Supplier or Employee discount plans, and attempting to get MSRP or MSRP+, but they are also marking up the lease rates they are quoting.

The money factor currently through GMAC is .00333 -- which equates to 7.992% (multiply the Money Factor of .00333 x 2400).

Dealers cannot go below this rate when calculating a lease, but they're sure free to go above it!

 

[mss42]

wow,

you can get a better rate purchasing the vehichle

 

[desgnconcpts]

Correct, 5.9% for 36 months through GMAC.

There are many good reasons to lease and one saving factor of GM's leases for Enclaves are the fairly high residuals they have set for these vehicles. The key to leasing is to put none of your own "skin" in the game -- leverage everything by putting all taxes, fees, etc into the lease payment and put no money down. I'm driving a $37K Audi and drove out of the dealership with a new 2007 vehicle having written a check for the 1st month's payment ONLY! Whenever our Enclave does arrive, I'll weight all of this and decide whether I want to own it or rent it.

 

[muljo]

We have pretty good rates around here for buying (63/5.79%). I could never lease. I put way to many miles in per year. I average around 20k a year. Plus I am buying to keep for hopefully many, many years.

 

[Smokin SRX]

Correct, 5.9% for 36 months through GMAC.

There are many good reasons to lease and one saving factor of GM's leases for Enclaves are the fairly high residuals they have set for these vehicles. The key to leasing is to put none of your own "skin" in the game -- leverage everything by putting all taxes, fees, etc into the lease payment and put no money down. I'm driving a $37K Audi and drove out of the dealership with a new 2007 vehicle having written a check for the 1st month's payment ONLY! Whenever our Enclave does arrive, I'll weight all of this and decide whether I want to own it or rent it.

THX for the excellent info! I'm now advising a friend, (currently driving a Sushi Sled) and what you said makes sense. Two points however to also consider........If I had the money, I'd find the best price (seems out of large city dealers, willing to ship (for an average today of $600-800) and sell at Invoice plus a little, for a vehicle IN-STOCK (unless I could wait 3 months or more!) and pay CASH! Currently, I'm getting 5.25% on a 1 year CD. Seems no one is getting a deal below 9% on a lease ( I didn't , w/ an 824 FICO !!) If I wanted higher than lease payments, I'd finance w/ GMAC or a Credit Union, nothing down, except 1st month and tax, for 60 months! Very simple interest charges around 6% would be figured in! I however leased , as lower pays and no obligation to keep were my goals. Payments are only $75 month cheaper in my case, but for 39 months however. Then I can bale or negotiate a better buy-out from GM! Did it twice so far!

I'm now gun-shy about leasing, as the dealer I bought from tried to burn me by hiding extras in all that GMAC Lease paper work! He wanted me to think my monthly was based on price he quoted me. NOT!! I'm a math major, but the damned papers had 3 different sale prices, in 3 different places! I called GMAC afterwards and filed a complaint!! (pending!) Amazing stuff!! If I had bought, it would be price + tax, divide by 59 months. Period! No wonder the dealers love leasing so much! Money factors? residuals? Cap costs reductions? Stay away from Royal GMC in Jersey!!! :angryfire:

But it sure is great to have choices, and a forum like this to help!!!

 

[desgnconcpts]

Smokin SRX,

I was told the only GMAC financing that's decent is the 5.9% for 36mos. Outside of that, the dealer told me you will pay through the nose.

The lease stuff is pretty simple -- let me post here for the benefit of all how to figure it out. You need nothing more than a simple calculator (or if you want, do the math longhand ;D ) to figure this out. But you're right, most dealers make it seem like "magic" and I believe very few even know anything beyond punching some numbers into a computer and then whatever it spits out, that's it.

So here's the formula:

Capitalized Cost - Residual Value divided by # months of your lease = amount of depreciation per month on your Enclave
ADDED TO:
Capitalized Cost + Residual Value x Money Factor = amount of your interest cost per month on your Enclave
Those 2 numbers = your lease payment

Where people get screwed up?
Residual Value is set by GMAC -- and is always calculated on MSRP, NOT the selling price of your vehicle (unless of course your selling price IS MSRP!)
Capitalized Cost -- this amount is your negotiated selling price, whatever that amount is, whether Supplier price or some other number

You can add whatever you want (typically up to 10% over your selling price through GMAC) to the Capitalized Cost -- so for example, if you want to include the running boards that you ordered and the dealer is installing and you want to include the Doc Fee and the taxes -- all of this can be included -- it simply adds to the capitalized cost of your Enclave.

GMAC charges a flat $595 acquisition fee when you lease -- I know of no instances where this is waived. There is a disposition fee that is paid at lease turn-in but waived when you lease another GM product.

Finally, the Money Factor is confusing -- if you are quoted a rate of 8%, divide it by 2400 to get your Money Factor (8/2400 = .0033333. .0033333 in this example is the Money Factor)

So, here's an example:
MSRP 36,410
Selling Price of 35,000, IL Tax of 8%, $2,800, doc fee of $60, GMAC lease origination fee of $595

Tax on a lease is handled differently in various states -- in IL and TX, you pay 100% of the tax, just as if you bought the vehicle. In other states, you pay on the portion you use, or on the lease payment. You should research this for yourself and find out what your state requires so you can be an informed buyer and know how much to add to your selling price for taxes if you want to put NO money down, simply walk out paying only the 1st payment.

Formula:
Cap cost (35,000+2,800+60+595 = 38,455) - Resid Value (set by GM, 64%/39mos/10K miles yr= 36,410 x .64 = 23,302) = 38,455-23,302 = 15,153/39mos = $388.54 depreciation per month
Cap cost 38,455 from above + Resid Value from above 23,302 = 61,757 x Money factor of .003333 (8%) = $205.86
Total lease in this example is $388.54 + 205.86 = $594.40

There are several places to find the lease terms from GMAC -- what GM dealers will refer to as the "buy" rate -- currently 8%, but most are trying to charge 9%
They cannot change the Residual value, that is set by GMAC for various lengths 24/36/39/48 months and mileage limits 10k/12k/15K are most typical.

Hope this helps others out there.

 

[Smokin SRX]

Now that was a damned good explanation by Dsgncncpts!! I just don't like the 9% they charged for my lease. But we needed a 7 passenger, fast, they had one, and.............................we love our Enclave!!

 

[desgnconcpts]

Now that was a damned good explanation by Dsgncncpts!! I just don't like the 9% they charged for my lease. But we needed a 7 passenger, fast, they had one, and.............................we love our Enclave!!

Thank you, Smokin SRX! Most folks' eyes glaze over when you try to get them to understand how to figure out a lease.
Don't feel bad about the 9% -- virtually every dealer I talked with wanted that much. The best I was able to do was get one to split the 1% with me and use 8.5% -- and this was the reason that I ended up buying (using the 36 mos GMAC 5.9%) and not leasing. Probably a bad reason, but in my case, it amounted to $30 more per month for nothing more than finance charges or about $1,200 over the life of the loan.

One other comment/thought about leasing -- when trying to decide about writing a check for taxes or fees or putting a deposit up-front (never, ever do this!) -- a quick rule of thumb to use to figure out what adding more to the lease will cost you (or even adding on another $1K or more of options) is this: $30 increase in payment for every $1,000 increase in capitalized cost (for a typical 12K/36mo lease). So, if you added the NAV @ $4,000, you would look at increasing your lease payment by about $120 per month. Again, this isn't exact, but a great rule of thumb, especially when wheeling and dealing with a dealer. If you have this knowledge in the back of you mind, you'll find it hard to get taken to the cleaners. ;D