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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Ok, like the title says. I am looking to buy an Enclave for my soon to be wife. I am debating between the Enclave and an Outlook. I was hoping y'all could tell me what to expect from them as far as price, mpg, reliability etc. I am really leaning towards the enclave over the outlook. But, I just need to know that the price difference is justified. We will be looking to get a base model enclave if that's what we decide to get.

Do y'all know if Buick excepts the GMDS discount?

Thanks in advance for the help.
 

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You will prob find very little price difference between the 2. IMHO the Enclave is jsut alot nicer inside and out - though, if you want something that would be used more in a rugged way Id go with the Outlook. Enclave doesnt look good messy outside and in :)

We were sold on an Acadia until we drove the Enclave.
 

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Same basic "package" but the styling is hugely different, and the Buick has the most attention (and boy is it ever noticeable) paid to quietness, smoothness, materials, etc. Extremely impressive.

As Outlook or Acadia people and they almost always say there's very little difference and they simply liked the Saturn/GMC look more, but look at them back to back AND drive them and you'll see it.

We were originally going for an Outlook XR with only one or two light options, and "liked it" enough, but on a whim took my mother to see what an Enclave was like...and she and I were enamored. The difference in the interior looks and feel, the stunning outside, etc. were the start, but on the road, the Enclave was shockingly quieter and smoother--all after thinking the Outlook/Acadia were greatly refined as is.

And lower trim to lower trim...you actually get more with the Enclave and it's more refined, which only helps the hot sales. HID headlights, power liftgate, dual power seats, leather steering wheel with controls, etc. are all standard on the base CX Enclave, and if you compare things specifically like the cloth, etc., the Buick base cloth seats are MUCH nicer than those with the stiff, shiny fabric in the Outlook and Acadia.

All are great choices...but the Buick is the shocker of them all. And YES, Buick accepts all GM discounts AND GM Card earnings (the latter something Saturn doesn't, except for with the one new flex card, and it's a very low %).
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
caddycruiser said:
Same basic "package" but the styling is hugely different, and the Buick has the most attention (and boy is it ever noticeable) paid to quietness, smoothness, materials, etc. Extremely impressive.

As Outlook or Acadia people and they almost always say there's very little difference and they simply liked the Saturn/GMC look more, but look at them back to back AND drive them and you'll see it.

We were originally going for an Outlook XR with only one or two light options, and "liked it" enough, but on a whim took my mother to see what an Enclave was like...and she and I were enamored. The difference in the interior looks and feel, the stunning outside, etc. were the start, but on the road, the Enclave was shockingly quieter and smoother--all after thinking the Outlook/Acadia were greatly refined as is.

And lower trim to lower trim...you actually get more with the Enclave and it's more refined, which only helps the hot sales. HID headlights, power liftgate, dual power seats, leather steering wheel with controls, etc. are all standard on the base CX Enclave, and if you compare things specifically like the cloth, etc., the Buick base cloth seats are MUCH nicer than those with the stiff, shiny fabric in the Outlook and Acadia.

All are great choices...but the Buick is the shocker of them all. And YES, Buick accepts all GM discounts AND GM Card earnings (the latter something Saturn doesn't, except for with the one new flex card, and it's a very low %).
Thanks this is the kind of info I am looking for. I do work for GM and was talking to one of their people today and he said that the Buick is a better vehicle. I just thought I'd try and get it from the owners mouths as well.

Are there any known problems with them or things I should look out for? I am 99% sold on it. Just having trouble adding another payment to all of my other bills. LOL Making my truck payment is bad enough. I guess that's one of the new joy's I am going to experience in married life. :D
 

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dodson914 said:
Are there any known problems with them or things I should look out for? I am 99% sold on it. Just having trouble adding another payment to all of my other bills. LOL Making my truck payment is bad enough. I guess that's one of the new joy's I am going to experience in married life. :D
:welcome:
Yup, us women are bad at that...spending money. Hope she has a good job and can help with the payments! Congratulations on the new vehicle and the new wife!
 

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I believe Enclave has an extra year on the warranty also.
 

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dodson914 said:
Ok, like the title says. I am looking to buy an Enclave for my soon to be wife. I am debating between the Enclave and an Outlook. I was hoping y'all could tell me what to expect from them as far as price, mpg, reliability etc. I am really leaning towards the enclave over the outlook. But, I just need to know that the price difference is justified. We will be looking to get a base model enclave if that's what we decide to get.

Do y'all know if Buick excepts the GMDS discount?

Thanks in advance for the help.
I would goto edmunds.com -- and print out the invoice cost of both -- I think the Acadia is a better
comparison to the enclave then the outlook -- We're leaning towards an Acadia -- but the wife
has not seen the other two yet --

Unless there is a huge compelling reason -- we're waiting for the '09s.

m
 

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We just did the test drive today of the Enclave CL and the Outlook XR. We really just want the cloth seats and not the leather. Overall, I found the cloth seats in the Outlook to be more comfortable. As far a quite drive, I really could not tell much of any difference between the two. As least not enought to really make a difference. For me, it will probably will come down to price and the dealer location/service. I just could really not say the the Enclave was that much better than the Outlook. Just my opinon.
 

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I heavily researched and compared these two: Outlook XR and XE to the base Enclave. Once the Outlook was outfitted with the options my wife wanted (skylight/sunroof, 2nd row Captain's Chairs, upgrade on the sound system (Advanced Audio Option, and potential option of a DVD system), the price was easily within reach of a discounted (the Buick dealers quickly come off price as you negotiate) Enclave. For that basically equal investment, the Enclave brings longer std warranty and a higher level of development/refinement...in other words, it's built much more to a luxury standard. GM is very specific on the target markets for these vehicles. To get the additional refinement at the same price of the somewhat more utilitarian Outlook, I call that a bargain.

All that said, I actually like the Outlook's lines just a little more (sorry everyone, the Enclave is still a beaut) because I lean to the form follows function philosophy. But for driving experience, resale, and my wife's happiness down the road...we're headed for an 09 Enclave. I anticipate the dependability of these two to be about equal.

(One other wrinkle I have at the moment: Honda Pilots are getting tremendous discount support right now as their new model nears release. I'm grappling with the option of a new Pilot SE(equipped as listed above) for almost $10k less. The problem...well, it's just not exactly attractive (I know, I just claimed to be form follows function) being an older design and certainly isn't as comfortable or stable of a platform as these new Lambda's. But to get 85-90% of the Lambda functionality with better dependability at about 25-30% less cost...hard thing to ignore.)

This forum was quick with input and very helpful to me. You came to a great resource.

Good Luck!! I'd love to see what you're driving after the day of delivery.
 

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Well the Pilot won't work for me -- the Wife's sister has one of those -- no form or function
will allow the two to drive the same vehicle :)

How much does a model lose in value when it is superceded by a replacement/remodel?

That's a tough call.

Still waiting on the '09 with DI.

m
 

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If you really are going with the Pilot, you'll be happy to know that as "stylistically challenged" the outgoing model is, it's award winning next to the '09 concept that I saw at the NY auto show this weekend. I don't know what was worse, that or the new for '09 Infiniti FX. As bad as the new FX is in pictures, it still didn't prepare me for an upclose look. YIKES!!! :eek:hno:
 

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Bowzer said:
But to get 85-90% of the Lambda functionality with better dependability at about 25-30% less cost...hard thing to ignore.)
I know I will get flamed for this, but remember that Buick just tied Lexus for #1 in reliability and has consistently ranked higher than Honda. Also, the Pilots have had transmission problems (actual FAILURES, not just shifting complaints). Just my $.02 as a GM homer.
 

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We shopped all the lambdas, as well as Acura MDX. I agree with the consensus here that the outlook is just as expensive as E with the same options, plus you get an extra year warranty. I would expect the E will hold value better due to "cachet" of Buick.
BUT the deciding factor for us was the ride. Acadia felt the roughest, Outlook next and we had just about given up on the lambda, then the E rode like a charm. IMHO, of course.
 

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ccaats said:
I know I will get flamed for this, but remember that Buick just tied Lexus for #1 in reliability and has consistently ranked higher than Honda. Also, the Pilots have had transmission problems (actual FAILURES, not just shifting complaints). Just my $.02 as a GM homer.
GM seems to be making some great strides in initial quality and it will hopefully continue to become long term reliability as well. THe Lambda's are prime examples of best in innovative design I think for their segment, too. But historically outranking Honda for reliability? Not sure what your resource is...Refer to this link http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/which-companies-make-the-best-cars/overview/0407_best_cars.htm for a recent Consumer Reports article. We could probably all cite different resources to support these sides, though.
In my experience, Honda's are far from being everything to everyone but they are hard to beat for doing what they are built to do day in and day out. I could easily be accused of being an import reliability snob having had some 4 Honda Accords the last 20+ years all with almost 200k miles a piece. But I have also owned other cars along the same time and enjoyed them. But when it comes to knowing which vehicle I could count on in the driveway, I many times (had to) walk past a newer vehicle to get into one of my aging Honda's to get down the road.
The Pilots as well as several Honda lines including one of my Accords did have complete transmission failures due to a defect in design. I certainly was not happy having such a failure at 62k miles...but felt much better after Honda replaced it and provided a new loaner at their cost after the original warranty. I hope Buick would do the same should something happen after their very ample 100k powertrain coverage.
So I hope you don't feel like I'm flaming...not intended by any means. I would like to see some of the references for the Buick reliability, though.
 

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Bowzer said:
GM seems to be making some great strides in initial quality and it will hopefully continue to become long term reliability as well. THe Lambda's are prime examples of best in innovative design I think for their segment, too. But historically outranking Honda for reliability? Not sure what your resource is...Refer to this link http://www.consumerreports.org/cro/cars/new-cars/buying-advice/which-companies-make-the-best-cars/overview/0407_best_cars.htm for a recent Consumer Reports article. We could probably all cite different resources to support these sides, though.
In my experience, Honda's are far from being everything to everyone but they are hard to beat for doing what they are built to do day in and day out. I could easily be accused of being an import reliability snob having had some 4 Honda Accords the last 20+ years all with almost 200k miles a piece. But I have also owned other cars along the same time and enjoyed them. But when it comes to knowing which vehicle I could count on in the driveway, I many times (had to) walk past a newer vehicle to get into one of my aging Honda's to get down the road.
The Pilots as well as several Honda lines including one of my Accords did have complete transmission failures due to a defect in design. I certainly was not happy having such a failure at 62k miles...but felt much better after Honda replaced it and provided a new loaner at their cost after the original warranty. I hope Buick would do the same should something happen after their very ample 100k powertrain coverage.
So I hope you don't feel like I'm flaming...not intended by any means. I would like to see some of the references for the Buick reliability, though.
See link: http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130

Do a google search and go back several years of JD Power DEPENDABILITY rankings (I went back to 2004) and Buick is ahead of Honda every year in "vehicle dependability" which rates 3 year old vehicles. Dependability or reliability is what was mentioned by the original poster. J.D. Power is independent and objective. Consumer Reports has long been known to be HIGHLY slanted toward imports. Case in point: I know that most happy owners of domestic vehicles (me included) refuse to be subscribers and give our money to Consumer Reports and, therefore, our positive ratings of our vehicles wouldn't be included in their surveys. Consumer Reports caters to people with a favorable image of imports and thus their rankings reflect that "slant". I am not saying Honda's aren't dependable (they rank high in the J.D. Power dependability rankings) but they aren't shown as "more dependable" than Buick and that is what Bowzer had said. I assume he has been "mis-led" as well by Consumer Reports.
 

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ccaats said:
See link: http://www.jdpower.com/corporate/news/releases/pressrelease.aspx?ID=2007130

Do a google search and go back several years of JD Power DEPENDABILITY rankings (I went back to 2004) and Buick is ahead of Honda every year in "vehicle dependability" which rates 3 year old vehicles. Dependability or reliability is what was mentioned by the original poster. J.D. Power is independent and objective. Consumer Reports has long been known to be HIGHLY slanted toward imports. Case in point: I know that most happy owners of domestic vehicles (me included) refuse to be subscribers and give our money to Consumer Reports and, therefore, our positive ratings of our vehicles wouldn't be included in their surveys. Consumer Reports caters to people with a favorable image of imports and thus their rankings reflect that "slant". I am not saying Honda's aren't dependable (they rank high in the J.D. Power dependability rankings) but they aren't shown as "more dependable" than Buick and that is what Bowzer had said. I assume he has been "mis-led" as well by Consumer Reports.
I've always thought it was strange how Buick vehicles ranked so much higher in dependability than the rest of GM's products. Take the 3 current models on the road. None of the platforms are Buick only, and they are all made in factories with other closely related GM cars. The LaCrosse is made in Oshawa with Impala and until recently, Monte Carlo and Grand Prix. Lucerne is made at Detroit/Hamtramck alongside Cadillac DTS. I don't have to get into specifics on the Lambdas. Even when you look at recently discontinued vehicles like Terraza (Montana SV6, Uplander, Relay), Rendevous (Aztek), and Rainier (Trailblazer, Envoy, 9-7x), its the same story.

So how could it be possible that there is such a big difference. Is there a Buick magician doing QC before the vehicles get shipped to the dealer?? lol
 

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If you will also note from the 2007 JD Power dependability ratings (for cars 3 years old or 2004 models) Buick, Cadillac and Olds rank very high, BUT Pontiac, Chevy and GMC aren't too far behind, ranking about mid pack. Only Saturn is in the bottom 1/3. However, so many "experts" in the general public seem to "stereotype" all GM products as being "bottom feeders" when it comes to dependability/reliability. These rankings (factual data) simply de-bunk that myth!
 

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ccaats said:
If you will also note from the 2007 JD Power dependability ratings (for cars 3 years old or 2004 models) Buick, Cadillac and Olds rank very high, BUT Pontiac, Chevy and GMC aren't too far behind, ranking about mid pack. Only Saturn is in the bottom 1/3. However, so many "experts" in the general public seem to "stereotype" all GM products as being "bottom feeders" when it comes to dependability/reliability. These rankings (factual data) simply de-bunk that myth!
There's quite a few variables we are making some assumptions on here. CR indeed does indeed only go by subscriber provided info. But only an actual ratio listing of number of vehicles reported vs sold would reveal the bias and CR has all that provided on some sheet I don't have the time to pull at the moment. But what about number of miles driven per vehicle vs just age? Further, you could even argue certain vehicles lend themselves toward different average driving styles and owner upkeep...all of which push the numbers back and forth. And of course there's the levels of complexity inherent to certain vehicles lending to much higher failure potential. That's why I mentioned we could all pull references to support just about any side you want. These studies, and even JD Powers included, are just showing one particular view and perspective and still depend on the resources providing the information. When I was in homebuilding, we noted many, many ways customer satisfaction and reportables of home build quality ratings were being skewed by the way the info was gathered and provided. I was with a top ranked group...meaning 2 things: there were good things being done for the most part and especially they knew a lot about how to present the info to JDP and a couple of other "independent" reporting groups.

Okay, so we can all throw enough data, stats, and mud in the air to walk away without a bit of constructive momentum. It always comes down to personal experience really. I've had a few domestics and I've had more imports in my driveway. None were perfect, and for me the imports (in this case Honda) provided more value down the road.

Lastly, I'm impressed with the data provided and thanks everyone for posting the links. It definitely seems Buick has succeeded in better quality control even when compared to its brethren within GM. I'm hoping some of the early concerns on drivetrain and engine cams will be quickly resolved and improved upon. I do think these Lambda's are about the best in new design as people movers combined with safety, driving experience, and looks. It's what Honda should have come out with for its next Pilot...Did I say that out loud? ;)
 
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