EnclaveForum.net: Buick Enclave Online Community banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
Well..I thought that I would be responsible and for once do the right thing and get my car waxed to protect the paint, etc..We have detailing company in the building I work that always does a great job...So I drop of my new baby for wash and wax ($65 no less) and when I pick it up on my way home tonight, the manager tells me he wants to show me a "paint issue"...Well, the bottom half of my platinum enclave looks like it has had some sort of something run into the plastic bottom half, kind of like dripping...I almost started crying...

It seems as though whatever they treat the plastic/bottom half of the car with didn't mix well with the soap from the detailing company :mad: :mad: :mad:, so there are drip marks all around the car (especially visable on the tailgate)..They say they are going to make sure it is repaired, but, man, we have had the car all of 5 days, and THIS!

Anyway, thought I would post so that y'all can be aware, and maybe let the people who wash your Enclave (or you) be aware that there may be an issue. They have been washing my Grand Cherokee for years, so it is not as if they are neglegent (although THEY WILL FIX THIS), but it seems that this area could be senstive...

My poor new baby is now officially damaged....I have tried to put this in perspective, as there are much more important things going on in the world...But, man -- it stinks!!

Lisa
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,065 Posts
Lisa,
Sorry to hear about your troubles. It appears to be a chemical in their soap or wax treatment? The problem is only on the lower cladding, not on the paint?
Good luck getting things fixed. :'( :'(
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
MrBuick -- Thanks for the proper word - the lower "cladding" is exactly it...I wonder what the heck it was..these guys are used to the "cladding" on my Jeep and many other cars, so it really doesn't make sense ???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
That plastic will most likely need to be replaced. It cannot be painted with any degree of success, otherwise many would paint it black or the same color as the paint. You do need to be careful what you use on any paint job in the first 6 months, now, apparently, even a grey plastic bumper. My guess is this will either be replaced under warranty by GM or you may have to put it through insurance. Re-painting it will require some kind of re-do guarantee for when it degrades...which would not be too long down the road. Hopefully this helps with your list of considerations and doesn't spoil your thoughts of a quick solution with some paint.

Best of luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
I hope it'll be a simple fix. If not, have at least the peace of mind that your Enclave has the potential to look new again. Best of luck. Let us know what happens.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
129 Posts
Sorry to hear about your misfortune.

Just a heads :) up to other owner/future owners. If you check out the Interactive Plant tour of the Lansing Delta Assembly Plant it gives a tour of the production process of these vehicles. In the PAINT SHOP they explain the process of painting etc. The Enclave spends 6.5 hours in the paint shop with each step explained. The FINAL coat applied is a CLEAR TOP COAT which is "baked" on. I believe the Enclave Painting Process is the most advanced in the industry right now! :thumb:

A good friend of ours runs a body shop and he advised that the cars today DO NOT NEED to be polished for some time because of the processes they use today. The paints used are far superior than they used to be and the CLEAR COAT is the protecting feature. If you need he advised just use the wax/wash feature once in a while at the drive through car wash. This guy does outstanding work on vehicles and specializes in professinal paint applications!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
249 Posts
For some people (like me ;D), even though I know my car don't need waxing, I still end up doing it anyway. I think it's just the peace of mind.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Erm, that guy does professional body work and he recommended to (1) not worry about putting a true wax or polish over the clear coat "for some time" on a new vehicle, and (2) instead just run it through an automatic wash/wax every now and then?

Not to be unnecessarily rude, but I would not take his advice on maintaining a vehicle ever again. He may be a master at putting paint on, but once it is one I'd let that be the extent of his input.

While it is true that a good clear coat on a modern paint process will protect the paint for many years, even in sun and harsh conditions, before any signs of fading or other degradation appear, the purpose of a wax or polish on any car (except for the most basic entry level lines) produced in the last fifteen or more years has been to protect the clear coat. A good wax or synthetic polish should offer substantial UV protection as well as physical protection from chemicals in the air and rain. It is the UV and chemicals that over time will damage the clear coat. Ever see a car that had a big opaque white spot with a "clear" center where the true paint color could be seen? That's what your clear coat will look like in ten or fifteen years with no wax protection. If you don't plan on keeping your vehicle that long, well, just don't tell the buyer you never bothered to maintain it.

As for automatic washes, unless they are touchless they will leave swirl marks. Those are the rings you see around the reflection of a bright light in your car's finish. It is especially easy to see in bright sunlight... just look for the direct reflection of the sun, and you might see thousands of fine "scratch" looking rings around the image of the sun. Car washes do that... along with detailers that use brushes (even softish ones) or dirty rags to wash your car. Also, debris (including even small dust particles) while driving at speed will contribute to these fine swirl marks.

Now here's the kicker... if you don't regularly wax, those swirl marks are in your clear coat. You can remove them with an abrasive "swirl and haze remover" but that can only be done so many times before the clear coat is so thin it becomes absent in places, leaving your paint completely unprotected. With a wax or polish, any swirl marks disappear with a reapplication of a cleaner wax, or a round of wax removal and rewaxing. As for the quick wash/wax in an automatic car wash being adequate, it is better than nothing - but that's like saying that if you are running a marathon wearing socks is better than wearing nothing on your feet.

I guess the point is sure, your car will look great for a year or two even if you do absolutely nothing, but why would you not protect it properly so that it looks great in 5 years and beyond? For any new car straight from the factory, I'd wash it, dry it, go over the entire body with a clay bar to remove any crap the dealer put on as well as rail dust and debris from shipping that is embedded in the paint, and then put a good wax or polish on. Rewax in one months to ensure proper coverage and protection, and then use a cleaner wax once or twice a year after that. After five, if you still have it, would probably be a good time to consider another round of clay to strip off the old wax layers, swirl remover to smooth out anything that made it through the wax, and a good rewaxing. Aside from the unavoidable rock chips (and maybe a door ding or nick here or there), there's no reason the finish on a modern paint process shouldn't look absolutely new for ten years or more. Not just "good from a distance" but smooth and wet looking up close with no swirl marks in the reflection.




Rant off. Now, as for the original poster, you may really like your detailer and have good experiences with them in the past, and they may be the nicest people in the world and may be absolutely professional and stand-up in how they deal with this unfortunate problem, but in the end there was something in the wash mixture they used that was way too harsh for really any vehicle. Chances are they got away with it on hundreds of other vehicles, but there is no reason to blame GM for using a substandard plastic grade on the body cladding. Whatever they chose to use should have stood up just fine to anything suitable for detailing cars. That detailer is using something pretty aggressive because it does wonders for older vehicles that quite honestly often look better when something strips off the outer layers of faded or abraded clear coat (or paint, in some cases!). They probably are comfortable with that because they use some sort of wax or polish (even if it is a quicky spray on/off or mist-detailing types that don't take long) after they wash, and know that the clear coat or paint will be re-protected when they are done.

I certainly wouldn't be rude to them, but if you are going to continue using their services after this ordeal, I'd ask if they could use only mild vehicle-specific soaps and water for your vehicle. Suggesting a few brands you are comfortable with shouldn't upset them too much. If it does, find another detailer. Be nice, but confident that you are within appropriate bounds of your rights and expectations to ask such questions. You are paying them, after all, and they did have a problem with their current wash mixture.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
40 Posts
Great input here but remember, we are not talking about the main vehicle paint job or clear-coats etc. The damage was done to the cheap, crappy grey strip along the bottom common to most new vehicle launches (we all rush to buy the new look then they remove it in favor of a mono-chrome finish and we all like the new look...common marketing from most manufacturers). This material is, by design, inexpensive but more chip-proof than the pretty paint job. It is surprising to see it fail when the other paint didn't but it is doubtful it can be painted. If it is, get a 3 year guarantee of some sort on the paint integrity (not chips etc). Best course of action is to have a new set of bumpers thrown on at the insurance expense of the detailer. They would have insurance for this and you are entitled to "back-to-original" condition. It was brand new so new bumpers is completely justified and the best way to keep your Enclave a virgin so to speak.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Discussion Starter #10
Thanks guys..

AlanD you are 100% correct, and my plan is to do just that. I honestly think this was an anomoly, as they work on really nice cars all day long. I think that whatever the Enclave plastic was treated with, didn't mix well with their soap...I hope to report back that everything is resolved..

I guess the upside is that the first damage to the car was NOT ME :thumb:

Thanks again for all the input...

Lisa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
313 Posts
Well, their soap should only contain soaponification agents... and water. Obviously something was in there that was able to undergo some other reaction type with either the plastic or a coating on the plastic, most likely a redox reaction. It probably is a fluke of something GM used plus what they use, but my point was that they should only be using products that absolutely can't undergo those types of reactions, fluke or not.

I do wonder whether the "dripping" marks left are a bleaching of the plastic/dye matrix itself, a leaching of dye from the plastic, or just a residue that is really tough to get off. Probably one of the first two, and would definitely have to be replaced, but if they are considering replacing I'd suggest getting a little more aggressive with solvents first to see if it is only a tough residue that might be removable (careful not to get solvents on the painted surfaces) - if you ruin the plastic further, so what.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
154 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
osli -- my guess it that is what will happen - the owner will try some things to remove it, and if not, the whole thing will need to be replaced....i hope it is removeable. but without dulling the plastic....i will post an update...

thanks again for all the input!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
317 Posts
Hello Lisa,

This is absolutely HORRIFIC news for you (well, in context of other things, it's not nearly as bad as you think, it is only a car -- but we all feel your pain). Don't let them get away with trying to paint it, the cladding is virtually impossible to paint (it will peel or more likely, orange peel -- that is, when painted, the paint ends up drying looking like the skin of an orange). You'll likely have to really push them to get the cladding replaced -- I would talk to your dealer about this to find out if they can do it in service or if you will have to take it to a body shop. If it's the latter, be careful you check them out to make sure they know what they're doing. You might also consider, if your dealer doesn't have its own body shop (and not many do -- but some still do) -- find a Buick dealer that has its own body shop and have the replacement of the cladding done there. They'll at least be familiar with Buick attachment schemes and likely be able to get guidance from the factory if they need it.

Please keep us posted and again, good luck getting it taken care of right away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
:drunk: I hate to admit it, but I swear, I almost never wash my freakin' car. If bird crap gets on it I will spray it with the hose, full force. Same thing for mud and road dirt. But a thunderstorm is the closest my car ever gets to being washed. Why? Mostly because I'm too lazy to take my cars through a car wash. I work most of the time, so I don't have time to waste at car washes. Also, a car looks dirty again within a couple of days after a car wash, so why bother? My wife would tell you I have the same attitude about taking showers, but fortunately she makes me take one every couple of days. Now, I know what you're thinking: "Big Larry must be one disgusting pig!" All I can say is, at least I LIVE a clean life.

Big Larry
[/color] :angel:
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
7,065 Posts
Larry,
Why bother EVER taking a shower, you'll just get dirty again >:D
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
184 Posts
MRBUICK said:
Larry,
Why bother EVER taking a shower, you'll just get dirty again >:D
Ummm... because wives don't perform their full range of services for husbands who don't shower. Right, ladies?

Big Larry
[/color] :angel:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
152 Posts
:eek:fftopic: :hijacked:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,999 Posts
lisaoleary said:
Well..I thought that I would be responsible and for once do the right thing and get my car waxed to protect the paint, etc..We have detailing company in the building I work that always does a great job...So I drop of my new baby for wash and wax ($65 no less) and when I pick it up on my way home tonight, the manager tells me he wants to show me a "paint issue"...Well, the bottom half of my platinum enclave looks like it has had some sort of something run into the plastic bottom half, kind of like dripping...I almost started crying...

It seems as though whatever they treat the plastic/bottom half of the car with didn't mix well with the soap from the detailing company :mad: :mad: :mad:, so there are drip marks all around the car (especially visable on the tailgate)..They say they are going to make sure it is repaired, but, man, we have had the car all of 5 days, and THIS!

Anyway, thought I would post so that y'all can be aware, and maybe let the people who wash your Enclave (or you) be aware that there may be an issue. They have been washing my Grand Cherokee for years, so it is not as if they are neglegent (although THEY WILL FIX THIS), but it seems that this area could be senstive...

My poor new baby is now officially damaged....I have tried to put this in perspective, as there are much more important things going on in the world...But, man -- it stinks!!



As an insight.........I car-wash all my GM's once a week ....or more! Local guy (I know for years) says they squirt an "acid" solution on the wheels and tires to remove brake dust quickly!! Had a minor problem w/ 2 true chrome wheels on my previous Caddy SRX, where the chrome started to flake a little! he said it was combo of the rain/brake dust and his solution bath! ( honest guy, eh? ) Said it was rare but he sees it after 3-4 years use. Car was 31/2 years old.


Now if a fresh "batch" had just been topped off, or added to, a little unblended perhaps, I bet it could disolve soft plastic! the clear coat paint (designed for "acid rain" ) may survive a lot better! ?

Anyway, keeping it clean will be safer than NOT for the paint, but........pass on the tire rinse (as you first enter, it's normally applied by hand sprayer) or change car wash/sevice. Even if inconvenient.

Good luck! But this was a freak!!!
We love our CLEAN Enclave ::)

Lisa
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,417 Posts
Big Larry said:
Ummm... because wives don't perform their full range of services for husbands who don't shower. Right, ladies?

Big Larry
[/color] :angel:
ewwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww :fart:
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top