EnclaveForum.net: Buick Enclave Online Community banner
1 - 20 of 31 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
41 Posts
Discussion Starter · #1 ·

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
It's hard to fault folks for fighting for worthwhile working conditions, but something is seriously amiss when foreign manufacturers can set up shop in our country, grab market share and folks seems to be pleased to work without a union. Meanwhile, American manufacturers seem to be hobbled not only by decades of consistently dubious management, but also by the UAW whenever they show signs of recovery.

I much prefer to buy American, but the first rule for a car company, and all the people it employs, is to sell cars. How can they do that with, as now, a number of separate strikes and threatened strikes against GM and its suppliers? OK, one answer is to move production offshore, but where does that leave everybody, and who's going to be the last person to turn out the lights in Michigan?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
And how many of the individual workers if polled without pressure from the Union Reps would want to strike right now? Seriously, is this a strike coming from the floor or from the union offices? I know I would not want to be out of work in this economy especially when I have a high paying job such as these folks do....IMO
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
Many would love to have those jobs. Gas went up here 17 cents in the last 3 days. The CUVs aren't that efficient in terms of fuel economy. Let's P.O. consumers now and bite the hand that feeds us. I've posted before about the increased costs of vehicles due to union excesses. I'm not trying to start an argument here, but this is ridiculous.
How many people eventually will simply say to heck with it and do something else?
Stupid.

BB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
171 Posts
This is a very complex topic. American Axle for example - let's cut the workers' hourly wage in half while the CEO gets a big fat raise and now makes over $10 mil a year. How do they expect someone who is married with a family to survive on $14/hour before taxes & health insurance are taken out. With gas at $3.50 and rising, food and everything else going through the roof, the little guy is going to be forced into a life of crime soon just to get by. Yet on the other hand, I can understand why GM is now getting their axles from Mexico, as they do have to run a business.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
9 Posts
Complex topic indeed. But UAW strike is not simplifying it, it's making it worse. Worker's salary gets cut in half while CEO pockets millions in bonuses - is it fair? Of course not! But where have we seen it fair? It's capitalism, jungle rules. Don't like it - go to the communist China or Korea. Or quit $14/hr job, go on welfare for a year, learn new skills that are in demand and get a new high paid job. Isn't the US the land of opportunity for everyone? Unions are like cancer - the sooner it gets surgically removed the sooner the patient will recover...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
Lets not blame it all on the CEOs although they deserve their share of blame.

Can anyone tell me how much it costs to run a union? The dues they pay, what are the "union bosses" making for salary. Last I checked they don't put anything together or apply any paint etc. They have office jobs and do what exactly? And again, how much do they make and what are the administrative costs of the UAW etc. I know where I live the teachers union has a building that is so beautiful and large you would think it was the corporate office of Exxon. The electrician union is building a new building right next to it that will be just as large. What are the UAW offices like and how much did they cost?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
As of Thursday morning, Lansing Delta, where Lambdas are made, is now officially on strike -- along with, since the day before, Alliance Interiors which makes Lambda carpets. This is in addition to the ongoing American Axle supplier strike that has idled other GM plants.

This Friday morning, the UAW is scheduling yet another strike at the Warren, Michigan transmission plant. Assuming this takes place, that brings the total number of UAW strikes against GM and its suppliers to four!

Anyone ready to set up an AcuraForum.net site? :banghead:

http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/business/business-gm-strike.html?pagewanted=print
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,514 Posts
I have said it before, and I will say it again. Either our federal government needs to FORCE the import auto manufacturers in this country to allow the UAW to recruit their employees, or the federal government needs to step in and disband the UAW altogether. Personally, I believe that the unions are to blame for the death of many once flourishing American industries and if the federal government doesn't step in and force a level playing field, then the death of the American automobile industry is a foregone conclusion. I for one would love to see the end of the UAW, but if not then force the UAW on the import manufacturers. It simply IS NOT FAIR to GM, Ford and Chrysler to have to compete with the "unionless" import manufacturers! I have read in the local papers that many workers at Honda here in Alabama are fed up with the unfair working environment, but they have no choice but to put up with it if they want to keep their jobs (much like the rest of us) since they don't have a union. HOW in the he** is it fair for the Big Three to compete with that when their employees can whine and walk off the job anytime they want just to get their way?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
I have read in the local papers that many workers at Honda here in Alabama are fed up with the unfair working environment, but they have no choice but to put up with it if they want to keep their jobs (much like the rest of us) since they don't have a union.
Ccaats, if Honda or any other non-union shop treats it nonexempt employees so shabbily that they want a union to further their interests, Federal law is clear as to the procedure, which works, to vote in a union. Of course, once a shop goes union, it's virtually impossible for the clock to be turned back. Too, a portion of union dues and a great deal of campaign manpower then goes to aid pro-union politicians, which in turn makes it harder yet to undo what has been done.

If Honda management is dense enough to let this happen, they will have brought this upon themselves, which so far hasn't been the case. But as for the Big Three, they're stuck with this legacy situation and it's a mess for all concerned -- shriveling firms, lost jobs, Rust Belt cities and corners cut to reduce costs so selling prices can be competitive.

The Big Three and the UAW have been successfully negotiating new terms to help level the playing field. Yet, the current climate of three or four strikes against GM and its suppliers isn't a hopeful sign.

As to here, my redheaded wife had finally come around to getting a nice red (what else?) 2009 Enclave once they are in showrooms. Now, she's looking again at foreign alternatives. Man, that sucks! :angryfire:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
So what did last years strike do? Thought agreements had been made to make GM sound for years!!

Ccaats you and I finally agree on something other than car choice!!!!! Disband the Union!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
232 Posts
ccaats said:
I have said it before, and I will say it again. Either our federal government needs to FORCE the import auto manufacturers in this country to allow the UAW to recruit their employees, or the federal government needs to step in and disband the UAW altogether. Personally, I believe that the unions are to blame for the death of many once flourishing American industries and if the federal government doesn't step in and force a level playing field, then the death of the American automobile industry is a foregone conclusion. I for one would love to see the end of the UAW, but if not then force the UAW on the import manufacturers. It simply IS NOT FAIR to GM, Ford and Chrysler to have to compete with the "unionless" import manufacturers! I have read in the local papers that many workers at Honda here in Alabama are fed up with the unfair working environment, but they have no choice but to put up with it if they want to keep their jobs (much like the rest of us) since they don't have a union. HOW in the he** is it fair for the Big Three to compete with that when their employees can whine and walk off the job anytime they want just to get their way?
What the **** are you talking about? The UAW is absolutely allowed to recruit and organize at import manufacturers' plants in this country. Any business' employees have the right to unionize in this country IF THEY WANT TO. That includes employees at Honda, Toyota, etc. plants. IF the UAW has been unable to unionize those plants because the employees haven't voted for it! Last time I checked, workers in this country still have a right NOT to work for a union, and that shouldn't change.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
349 Posts
I agree completely. While I don't think the government should force unions on the imports, they shouldn't prohibit a company from going back to non-union. The rules today make it almost impossible to go back.

Also, there is pending legislature the Dems are waiting until next year so they don't have to worry about a presidential veto. Anyhow the bill would do away with blind voting so the union can identify those that vote no and harass them to no end. Just the powerful union lobbies exerting their influence. And which party do the unions vote for?????

About 20 years ago I had a summer job at the largest non-union electrical contracting firm in New England. At the time, the union was in trying to get them to go union. I worked in the warehouse with the union organizer. The first conversation we had, he told me to stop working so hard as I was making him look bad. To make a long story short, they failed to unionize because the company provided good stable work for a fair pay and they treated them well. At least their workers were smart enough to vote it down.

Are you aware that a company is NOT ALLOWED to present an alternative argument when the union is in there whispering sweat nothings into their ears. The poor workers only hear one side of the argument and then complain when they are not instantly rich after voting for the union.

My wifes company went union last year. 75% of the employees complained during the first payroll because they got paid less. The union promised raises but neglected to tell them their union dues were significantly more than their raise so in effect they all took pay cuts once they were union.

I'm sorry, people that do not graduate high school are not entitled to make 80K per year like line workers. Unions to me mean work as little as you can for as much money as you can regardless of how that affects the company you work for.

Off my soap box now.

ALso, I think the UAW walked out today. No Enclaves for a while.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
644 Posts
So many of us have had your experience Cruiser68. Go bsox, ccaats and others. I know that many of you struggled with debt and years of work for the dubious reward of working long hours without a safety net. Many beyond conservative me have had it with the unions. I could go on forever, but I'll stop short this time.

BB
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
325 Posts
Well, I've worked on both sides of the fence, union & salary. We need both! Anyone who is a salary employee...the benefits that you have...do you think they are there because of the goodness of Management? I don't think so! You have them because of the threat of the union or because some union went on strike to get those benefits at some point in the past.
The union is certainly not without faults. In a factory environment they can strangle a Company by unfair & extremely strict rules that border on ridiculous. I spent 15 yrs in a couple of unions & 28 yrs as a salary employee & each has its plus's & minus's.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,514 Posts
loach said:
What the **** are you talking about? The UAW is absolutely allowed to recruit and organize at import manufacturers' plants in this country. Any business' employees have the right to unionize in this country IF THEY WANT TO. That includes employees at Honda, Toyota, etc. plants. IF the UAW has been unable to unionize those plants because the employees haven't voted for it! Last time I checked, workers in this country still have a right NOT to work for a union, and that shouldn't change.
There was an article on the front page of the Birmingham News several months ago that the UAW had planned a fairly secret "informational" meeting at a local hotel conference room and had over 800 Honda workers show up! Thats over 1/3 of the total workforce at the Odyssey/Pilot/Ridgeline plant and there were quite a few "negative comments" toward Honda management quoted in the paper. What these people also said was that they were afraid to give their names to the paper over fear of being discplined or even fired for "meeting" with UAW representatives. The article outlined many strongarm tactics including intimidation, threats etc being made by Honda management to discourage employees from even thinking about "unionizing". The whole thing sounded like a story out of "Goodfellas" and left me with a slightly different take on the unions and how I thought about the employees there without a voice.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,693 Posts
I no longer work in a Union shop but have worked in many. Some function the way that was intended, some are horrible. My experience with the UAW is that the only ones who benefitted were those workers who should have (and would have been anywhere else) been fired because they were a POS (drug addict, liars, didn't show up to work, constantly ignored or broke the rules, add other similar items here). Why protect someone who is jeopardizing your future?

My current shop is non-union. The people seem happy to have the job, make almost what the UAW workers made at my last job, and are treated fairly. The tension that was constantly there between management and the union officials is not present. It seems to be a much healthier atmosphere.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,662 Posts
ccaats said:
There was an article on the front page of the Birmingham News several months ago that the UAW had planned a fairly secret "informational" meeting at a local hotel conference room and had over 800 Honda workers show up! Thats over 1/3 of the total workforce at the Odyssey/Pilot/Ridgeline plant and there were quite a few "negative comments" toward Honda management quoted in the paper. What these people also said was that they were afraid to give their names to the paper over fear of being discplined or even fired for "meeting" with UAW representatives. The article outlined many strongarm tactics including intimidation, threats etc being made by Honda management to discourage employees from even thinking about "unionizing". The whole thing sounded like a story out of "Goodfellas" and left me with a slightly different take on the unions and how I thought about the employees there without a voice.
Yeah I am sure it was Honda doing the strong arming, have never heard of any of those tactics from a union before! No one has answered my questions. What do the Union bosses make and how much does it cost to run the administration of the union. Millions about millions I bet just in operating expenses. How much of that trickles down to really help the workers??????
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
314 Posts
jmy44 said:
I have been a union worker all my life .Most often held a foreman/supervisors position.If you look to just the GM dealerships today they are doublebreasted ,with a kid off the street doing the actual oil changes. Not union men doing the work but they charge like a union man was doing the work.

Also where was GM's Quality control when they made all those bad cam shafts. They didn't make 800 in 1 shift did they. Some sort of QC should have caught them. My son looked at a 2007 Acadia with 7,000 miles He liked the vehicle but the dealer said it was a GM buy back because of a reaccuring dead battery issue. So if a person is buying used today beware as the lemon law does't cover USED cars.
Nice attitude! You voluntarily work for a company whose sales put food on your family's table, then you go on a public forum to go on about defects and lemon laws.

You're shouting at the sea, jmy44. On this forum you'll find more people knowledgeable about the Enclave than nearly anywhere else on Planet Earth. Even though Internet forums tend to be bitch-and-moan fests, the vast majority of owners posting here come off as thrilled with their Enclaves.

I just came from a Buick service department yesterday, and those guys in the service bays are real professionals proud of the first-rate work they do. And if some "kid" comes in off the streets and wants to learn the ropes, right on! He beats by a country mile guys who have enviable jobs but can only find things to grouse about.

You're right about one thing, though: The dealer's receptionist was delightfully doublebreasted! :thumbsup:
 
1 - 20 of 31 Posts
Top