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kidsenclave said:
Wonder if the 2012-2013 Enclave will get any refreshening at all? I think, since they decided to make the new Enclave 2014, then the 2011-2013 should have been refreshed.
GM will do small changes (as seen on the new 2011 with upgraded onstar diagnostics and a few other tiny changes), but a "freshening" as you state probably will not happen. The car got a large number of changes its second year (2009) with an upgraded powertrain (new engine, retuned transmission), and new improved electronics for bluetooth and the automated voice recognition which was quite an improvement. However, those I know at GM state that their focus right now is getting car revamps back on schedule as soon as possible. The CEO is pushing hard to get new cars out quicker with no decline in quality - a tall order. The engineer's thought is that with the focus on accelerating output of new models, that will leave fewer resources for freshening. This is not to say it will not happen, just that it is not likely. GM is more likely to spend resources on new propulsion technologies like expanding the Volt's powertrain, adding eAssist to more cars than the relatively new Buick LaCross, and using direct injection I-4/V-6s with a six speed transmission on most cars. That is where the engineers I know think the money can be best spent. We will see what happens.
 

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vic1212 said:
they should do turbocharged without the turbo lag
They got their know-how from the Saab engineers on turbo lag, which is pretty minimal. The new 220 turbo in the regal is a direct lift from the Saab 9-3 which is built on the Epsilon I platform while the Regal is built on the Epsilon II platform. However, the Ecotec 2.0 engine is the same with the same engine controls coming from Sweden. The same engine controls were adopted for the new direct injection 1.4 liter used on the new Chevrolet Cruze which is a smaller engine but with the same minimal turbo lag.

Drive a GM/Saab turbo, and then drive anyone else - you will see that the turbo lag is actually pretty good in the GM cars thanks to Saab's engineering now adopted at GM. Ford is trying hard right now to match it, but has failed to do it yet with the new twin-scroll turbos they are coming out with.
 

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Going back to the original question of a small Enclave, isn't the Cadillac SRX built on the same platform as the Terrain? I can't see why GM would make a small Enclave to compete with it. The SRX's Luxury FWD MSRP is about 40,000 and you can get a dealer to negotiate to about 36,000. Why would they bother to build a small Buick to try and compete with that?
 

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KCorey said:
Going back to the original question of a small Enclave, isn't the Cadillac SRX built on the same platform as the Terrain? I can't see why GM would make a small Enclave to compete with it. The SRX's Luxury FWD MSRP is about 40,000 and you can get a dealer to negotiate to about 36,000. Why would they bother to build a small Buick to try and compete with that?
SRX is on Theta Premium
 

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KCorey said:
Going back to the original question of a small Enclave, isn't the Cadillac SRX built on the same platform as the Terrain? I can't see why GM would make a small Enclave to compete with it. The SRX's Luxury FWD MSRP is about 40,000 and you can get a dealer to negotiate to about 36,000. Why would they bother to build a small Buick to try and compete with that?
Because it will sell. Not everybody needs a 7-8 passenger vehicle and that would be perfect for some.
 

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KCorey said:
Going back to the original question of a small Enclave, isn't the Cadillac SRX built on the same platform as the Terrain? I can't see why GM would make a small Enclave to compete with it. The SRX's Luxury FWD MSRP is about 40,000 and you can get a dealer to negotiate to about 36,000. Why would they bother to build a small Buick to try and compete with that?
The Cadillac SRX shares its platform with no other GM cars right now. Well, that is not quite true. It is going to be sharing its platform with Saab since the 9-4X is the replacement for the 9-7X discontinued a few years ago. The Cadillac leverages a lot of technology developed by the independent Saab engineering staff. The turbocharged 2.8 liter V-6 that was used in the 9-3 until 2011 is the same engine in the SRX (and for those engineers who follow engines, this is the orginal V-6 used in the CTS that was underpowered and discontinued after a few years, but Saab took it, added the turbocharger and their engine controls to it, and raised the HP to 300 from the original more anemic 218 used in the orginal CTS). The Halidex all wheel drive is from Saab's Swedish partner that builds it for them.

The car is built in Mexico for Cadillac and now soon for Saab, but a lot of the powertrain in the turbo model was designed in Sweden. There are no plans to build this platform for any other GM division right now. This may change if Saab goes away... we will have to wait and see what happens.
 

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I understand that Cadillac is not going to have the turbo engine in 2012, only 3.6 engines, the same as in the Enclaves and some other GM cars.
What is the "Theta Premium"?
As for a "smaller" car, it's true that the SRX is a 5 passenger, not a 7 (or 8) passenger, but it's only about 10" shorter overall. When we first got it it was fine for all 7 of our grandchildren to fit in. Now that they have "grown", I'm trying to convince the boss that a little smaller (and cheaper) would be great. I had a hard time convincing her to buy the "E", but that's another story.
 

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KCorey said:
Going back to the original question of a small Enclave, isn't the Cadillac SRX built on the same platform as the Terrain? I can't see why GM would make a small Enclave to compete with it. The SRX's Luxury FWD MSRP is about 40,000 and you can get a dealer to negotiate to about 36,000. Why would they bother to build a small Buick to try and compete with that?
The Equinox and Terrain share the same platform....Theta. The Caddy SRX and the Saab 9-4X share another platform called T-E (or Theta Epsilon). The platforms are NOT the same. SRXs are heavier and longer. They have larger brakes an wheel packages. The vehicles GVWs are higher than the Thetas. It would the be the equivalent in saying that the 2011 Chevy Malibu is the same as the 2012 Buick Lacrosse. Not true...BTW.
 

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Family Truckster...thanks so much. Sometimes there's just so darn much to learn. It was so much easier when there was just a "standard" and "Deluxe"!!
 

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KCorey said:
I understand that Cadillac is not going to have the turbo engine in 2012, only 3.6 engines, the same as in the Enclaves and some other GM cars.
Yes, it is true, and disappointing. The 2.8l turbo gets better gas mileage, has the same hp, and has more torque. (295 for the turbo, 260 for the 3.6). Still not sure what the point is except to differentiate from the Saab. Or perhaps people complained about the minor turbo lag? Whatever the case, the decision was made and in a couple of months, the engines will be switched this summer. The 3.0 engine will be discontinued is my understanding, so the new 3.6 is the only engine in 2012..
 

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Most Cadillac SRX buyers or future buyers never KNEW there were two engine options for the model. Because it was more costly to stock the 2.8L on the lots, what engine do you think most dealers ordered to stock their lots??? Yup, you guessed it...the 3.0L. So, it is no wonder GM is killing off the engine because of poor marketplace reception. In the end, most people STILL buy their cars off the lot rather than custom order it. So with that kind of marketplace demand, potential customers are left to the ordering whims of the dealership personell.
 

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Family Truckster...somewhat true regarding the 2.8 turbo, but it was only available in the "Premium" model, which went for about $5,000 more. When I asked several dealers about it they responded that they never sold one...just too much money. As for economy, GM stated that it never was that good...about 15/22...much lower than they hoped. Overall, the Luxury is the best buy. Now, for 2012 all the SRX's will have the 3.6, which I think will be pretty standard for all of GM sporting a 6 cylinder. It looks like Buick will not come out with a smaller "Lambda" until 2013 or 14, about the same for Cadillac releasing a 7 passenger "Enclave". According to GM they are not going to discontinue the "Escalade", either.
 

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Family Truckster said:
Most Cadillac SRX buyers or future buyers never KNEW there were two engine options for the model. Because it was more costly to stock the 2.8L on the lots, what engine do you think most dealers ordered to stock their lots??? Yup, you guessed it...the 3.0L. So, it is no wonder GM is killing off the engine because of poor marketplace reception. In the end, most people STILL buy their cars off the lot rather than custom order it. So with that kind of marketplace demand, potential customers are left to the ordering whims of the dealership personell.
their above attitude was stupid.... My local dealer Arnold Palmer Cadillac lost a sale to me because they never called to tell me they got one in for me to test drive and never called me back... I would have bought an SRX in the turbo only... as the 3.0 was a pig....shame on them... instead I bought the Mercedes ML
 

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Caddy will never discontinue the Escalade. It's a cash cow and they have more than enough CAFE room for it. The only thing I think they may do is move it to ESV only though but that is just a wild guess.

The 3.6 is becoming the VQ of GM IMO.
 

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Wow, the Baby Enclave!! I will definately have to have one of these!!!!

And will probably be ready for a new car by then! Totally awesome!
[/color] :cheers:
 

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kidsenclave said:
There will be a small Buick crossover, which will be called Encore. (according to multiple sources, do a search for it...) Perhaps 2012 or 2013, no one really knows for sure. The clay model, which people thought was the next Enclave, is most likely the Encore. Expect it to be on the Theta platform (or Theta-Epsilon) I think they are saying, which will be similar in size to the Terrain and Equinox (and SRX). This is NOT badge engineering, it's platform sharing, there's a huge difference. Here's the photo:
You nailed this one! I was just looking at some old thrad when I noticed your prophetic post. :angel:
 
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