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Discussion Starter #1
It appears that the TSB has now been elevated to a recall as GM has isolated VIN "breakpoints" for affected vehicles. My Enclave is within the VIN breakpoint, but my Acadia is not. If you read further, not all vehicles within the VIN breakpoint are affected, and GM should be identifying exactly which VIN numbers are affected and sending out a letter. Since we haven't had a leak, I would prefer that they not mess with it even if our VIN number is identified. We watch very closely after any rain/washing for ANY evidence of a leak and we are ok at this point. It is good to see GM addressing this in a more pro-active and accurate way though. Good luck to those affected! :thumb:


#08207: Customer Satisfaction - Sunroof Water Leak-Install Drain Tube Extensions - (Aug 27, 2008)

Subject: 08207- Sunroof Water Leak - Install Drain Tube Extensions
Models: 2008 Buick Enclave
2007-2008 GMC Acadia
2007-2008 Saturn OUTLOOK
Equipped with a Sunroof

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

THIS PROGRAM IS IN EFFECT UNTIL SEPTEMBER 30, 2009.

Condition
Certain 2008 model year Buick Enclave; 2007-2008 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a sunroof may have a condition in which water is not properly drained away from the sunroof. If this condition were to occur, water may enter the interior of the vehicle and dampen the carpet, upholstery, and other interior components.

Correction
Dealers/retailers are to install drain tube extension assemblies, and ensure that the water drains properly.

Vehicles Involved
Involved are certain 2008 model year Buick Enclave; 2007-2008 model year GMC Acadia and Saturn OUTLOOK vehicles equipped with a sunroof and built within these VIN breakpoints:

Year Division Model From Through
2008 Buick Enclave 8J100004 8J168550
2007 GMC Acadia 7J100150 7J175624
2008 GMC Acadia 8J100942 8J168630
2007 Saturn OUTLOOK 7J100003 7J175620
2008 Saturn OUTLOOK 8J100640 8J168626

Important: Dealers/retailers are to confirm vehicle eligibility prior to beginning repairs by using the system(s) below. Not all vehicles within the above breakpoints may be involved.

- GM dealers and Canadian Saturn/Saab retailers should use GMVIS.
- Saturn US retailers should use the 'Investigate Vehicle History' link on the Global Warranty Management application within DealerWorld.

For dealers/retailers with involved vehicles, a listing with involved vehicles containing the complete vehicle identification number, customer name, and address information has been prepared and will be provided through the applicable system listed below. Dealers/retailers will not have a report available if they have no involved vehicles currently assigned.

- US GM and Saturn dealers/retailers - GM DealerWorld Recall Information
- Canadian GM/Saturn/Saab dealers/retailers - GMinfoNet Recall Reports
- Export dealers - sent directly to dealers

The listing may contain customer names and addresses obtained from Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any purpose other than follow-up necessary to complete this program is a violation of law in several states/provinces/countries. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this report to the follow-up necessary to complete this program.

Parts Information
GM, Saturn/Saab Canada Only - Parts required to complete this program are to be obtained from General Motors Service and Parts Operations (GMSPO). Please refer to your "involved vehicles listing" before ordering parts. Normal orders should be placed on a DRO = Daily Replenishment Order. In an emergency situation, parts should be ordered on a CSO = Customer Special Order.

Saturn US Only - A pre-shipment of the required parts to perform this repair has been sent to involved Saturn US retailers from Saturn Service Parts Operations (SSPO).

Part Number
Description
Qty/ Vehicle

25930220
Tube, Sun Rf Hsg RR Drn
2

To Be Obtained Locally
Tie Straps
8


Service Procedure
Important: Before lowering the headliner, please perform the following steps to avoid damage to the interior trim.

On the assist handle, use a small screwdriver to open both screw covers by prying carefully from the inboard edge. Remove the screws.

On the "A" pillar and "D" pillar, use a small screw driver to open the screw cover by prying carefully from the bottom edge. Remove the screws.

On the "B" pillar and "C" pillar, use a small screw driver to open the screw cover by prying carefully from the top edge. Remove the screws.

Remove the partition hooks by twisting counter clockwise and remove the screws, also remove the bolt under the armrest.

Before lowering the headliner, remove the screws inside the roof air deflectors.
Add Sunroof Drain Hose Extensions
Extend both middle drain tubes by adding sunroof drain tube extensions.

Lower the headliner by following SI procedures.

Add a tube assembly (drain extension) to each middle sunroof drain and install the clamps to the module drain spout.

Add a tie strap to both middle-connector to module drain spout in the location shown and clip off excess lead with wire snips.

Important: Make sure there are no dips in the hose after the extension has been added. Refer to the illustration. In some cases, it may be necessary to trim off some of the drain tube to eliminate the dip in the drain tubing.

The drain hose should be straight with a slight downward angle to the rear of the vehicle.
Check Drain Hose Routing Between the "B" and "C" Pillar for Proper Routing

Figure 1 -- Incorrect Routing

Figure 2-- Correct Routing

After installing the extensions, make sure that the hose is routed in back of the air bag bracket. Figure 1 is the incorrect routing; Figure 2 shows the correct routing.
Make sure that there are no bends pointing upward in the drain tubes.
Check All Drain Hose Connections and Add Tie Straps

Check the front and rear sunroof drain hose connections to make sure they are fully seated and add a tie strap to each front and rear connection. Clip off excess lead with wire snips.
Reinstall the headliner following SI procedures.


Modify Front Drain Hoses

Remove the "A" pillar trim and defroster outlet grille to gain access to the end of the drain tubes.

Remove the rubber grommet at the end of the drain tube.

Using a light-duty X-Acto knife, carefully remove the cross hatch inside the grommet and reinstall. Another solution is to utilize a 3/8 in spot weld drill bit to remove the cross hatch.
Courtesy Transportation - For US and Canada
The General Motors Courtesy Transportation program is intended to minimize customer inconvenience when a vehicle requires a repair that is covered by the New Vehicle Limited Warranties. The availability of courtesy transportation to customers whose vehicles are within the warranty coverage period and involved in a product program is very important in maintaining customer satisfaction. Dealers are to ensure that these customers understand that shuttle service or some other form of courtesy transportation is available and will be provided at no charge. GM dealers should refer to the General Motors Service Policies and Procedures Manual for Courtesy Transportation guidelines. Saturn Canada retailers should refer to applicable Home Office letter on this subject.

Claim Information - GM, Saturn/Saab Canada Only
Submit a Product Claim with the information indicated below:

Repair Performed
Part Count
Part No.
Parts Allow
CC-FC
Labor Op
Labor Hours
Net Item

Install Drain Tube Extension Assemblies (inc. modify frt. drain hoses)
10
--
*
MA-96
V1858
2.9
**

Courtesy Transportation for vehicles within the New Vehicle Limited Warranties (US & Canadian GM Dealers)
N/A
N/A
N/A
MA-96
***
N/A
****

* The "Parts Allowance" should be the sum total of the current GMSPO Dealer net price plus applicable Mark-Up or Landed Cost Mark-Up (for Export) for two tube kits needed to complete the repair.

** The amount identified in the "Net Item" column should represent the actual sum total of the eight tie straps needed to perform the required repairs, not to exceed $0.96 USD, $1.02 CAD, plus applicable Mark-Up or Landed Cost (for Export).

*** Submit courtesy transportation using normal labor operations for courtesy transportation as indicated in the GM Service Policies and Procedures Manual for vehicles within the New Vehicle Limited Warranties.

**** The amount identified in the "Net Item" column should represent the actual dollar amount for courtesy transportation.

Refer to the General Motors WINS Claims Processing Manual for details on Product Recall Claim Submission.

Claim Information - Saturn US Only
1. To receive credit, submit a claim with the information below:

Repair Performed
Parts Allow.
Sale Type
Case Type
Labor Op.
Labor Hrs.

Install Drain Tube Extension Assemblies (inc. modify frt. drain hoses)
10
--
*
V1858
2.9

* The parts allowance should be the sum total of the current SSPO retailer net price plus 40% of all parts required for the repair.

2. Submit courtesy transportation expense with labor code V1858 using the appropriate Net Item Code.

Customer Notification - For US and Canada
General Motors will notify customers of this program on their vehicle (see copy of customer letter included with this bulletin).

Customer Notification - For Export
Letters will be sent to known owners of record located within areas covered by the US National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act. For owners outside these areas, dealers should notify customers using the attached sample letter.

Dealer Program Responsibility
All unsold new vehicles in dealers' possession and subject to this program must be held and inspected/repaired per the service procedure of this program bulletin before customers take possession of these vehicles.

Dealers are to service all vehicles subject to this program at no charge to customers, regardless of mileage, age of vehicle, or ownership, through September 30, 2009.

Customers who have recently purchased vehicles sold from your vehicle inventory, and for which there is no customer information indicated on the dealer listing, are to be contacted by the dealer. Arrangements are to be made to make the required correction according to the instructions contained in this bulletin. A copy of the customer letter is provided in this bulletin for your use in contacting customers. Program follow-up cards should not be used for this purpose, since the customer may not as yet have received the notification letter.

In summary, whenever a vehicle subject to this program enters your vehicle inventory, or is in your dealership for service through September 30, 2009, you must take the steps necessary to be sure the program correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.

September 2008
Dear General Motors Customer:

We have learned that your 2008 model year Buick Enclave or 2007-2008 model year GMC Acadia or Saturn OUTLOOK, equipped with a sunroof, may have a condition in which water is not properly drained away from the sunroof. If this condition were to occur, water may enter the interior of the vehicle and dampen the carpet, upholstery, and other interior components.

Your satisfaction with your Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, or Saturn OUTLOOK is very important to us, so we are announcing a program to prevent this condition or, if it has occurred, to fix it.

What We Will Do: Your GM dealer/retailer will install drain tube extension assemblies and ensure that the water drains properly. This service will be performed for you at no charge until September 30, 2009 .

What You Should Do: To limit any possible inconvenience, we recommend that you contact your dealer/retailer as soon as possible to schedule an appointment for this repair. By scheduling an appointment, your dealer/retailer can ensure that the necessary parts will be available on your scheduled appointment date.

Customer Reply Form: The enclosed customer reply form identifies your vehicle. Presentation of this form to your dealer/retailer will assist in making the necessary correction in the shortest possible time. If you no longer own this vehicle, please let us know by completing the form and mailing it back to us. If you have any questions or need any assistance to better understand related repairs, please contact your dealer/retailer.

If you have questions related to a potential reimbursement, please contact the appropriate Customer Assistance Center at the number listed below.

Division
Number
Text Telephones (TTY)

Buick
1-866-608-8080
1-800-832-8425

GMC
1-866-996-9463
1-800-462-8583

Saturn
1-800-972-8876
1-800-833-6000

Guam
1-671-648-8450


Puerto Rico - English
1-800-496-9992


Puerto Rico - Español
1-800-496-9993


Virgin Islands
1-800-496-9994



Courtesy Transportation
If your vehicle is within the New Vehicle Limited Warranty your dealer/retailer may provide you with shuttle service or some other form of courtesy transportation while your vehicle is at the dealership/facility for this repair. Please refer to your Owner’s Manual and your dealer/retailer for details on Courtesy Transportation.

We sincerely regret any inconvenience or concern that this situation may cause you. We want you to know that we will do our best, throughout your ownership experience, to ensure that your GM vehicle provides you many miles of enjoyable driving.

Scott Lawson

General Director,

Customer and Relationship Services

Enclosure

08207
 

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Glad to see they addressed this issue, unfortunatley mine already flooded but hopefully it will prevent others from the same demise.
 

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Interesting...we had torrential rains here yesterday (what was left of Gustav), and I went out to my Enclave after work to find all the interior driver-side side panels soaking wet, driver's seat belt was soaking wet, along with the driver's carpet and even a good amount of water on my leather seats!

I called the dealer today to schedule an appointment...told them what was going on...they told me about the sunroof recall. Although the person I talked to wasn't too sure that my leaking problem was actually related to the recall. I guess we'll find out.

This is the first "new new" car I've owned. How much can I get out of this recall/warranty issue? I know they'll fix the overall problem (whether realated to the recall or not), but what about the water stains left on my interior side panels? What about the inevitable mold that I'm going to smell from my floorboard carpet? What about the damage all that moisture has caused to my leather seats? How much can I push for them to address these issues that resulted from the leak? I'm pretty ticked off about this...water damage is nothing to screw around with, and just fixing the cause of the leak isn't going to be enough for me.
 

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been there, done that and have absolutely the same long term concerns as you......mine was 8 months old before it leaked. My dealer told me the other day that if you have a sun roof,don't use it until you know if it is part of the recall or not. The service manager told me that when you open and close it or slide it back it causes the drainage tubes to come off thus the flooding....just an idea for those who haven't leaked as of yet until you find out if your vehicle is being recalled.....
 

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GRD and others who had a sunroof leak,

I contacted buick today and expressed my concerns over long term issues with corrosion due to electrical components being subjected to water. They seemed to be very understanding and took all my info and will be looking at extending my warranty. They informed me it will take a few weeks to get back with an answer. Worth a shot for those affected, otherwise you get nothing and possibly a nice repair bill after the warranty expires....hope it helps!
 

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PAPopo -

Please let us know what the outcome is when (if) you hear back from Buick! I'm going to wait to place that call till after my visit to the dealer next week, but I WILL be calling them to express those same concerns.

Does what I described earlier sound like the same type of water leak you experiened? Still just wondering if my problem is separate from the recall...on the phone today with the dealer they were skeptical that it was recall-related based on the areas of the car that were wet.

I'll post an update Monday after my visit to the dealer!
 

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EXACTLY the same spots you mentioned....when I asked the sercie guys what happened they told me the drain tubes came off from opening it becasue they were too short from the factory.....
 

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How long is this warranty? Is it the general 5 yrs? Have same problem (drivers side seat belt) --- do you think thats why speaker system is horrible because of being wet? Will call tomorrow to scedule appt...
 

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Dealer confirmed today that the leaking problem I encountered last week was infact due to the sunroof recall. They fixed it today. He said they just received the new parts today, so my timing was perfect (for once). I was probably the first fix they've done on this recall, so hopefully they didn't screw it up!

He said there wasn't anything they could "do" to help my concerns relating to long-term damage from the moisture. He encouraged me to call Buick and pose the same concerns to them - which I guess I'll do, for what it's worth.
 

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This is comical. After 45 days in multiple dealers, GM finalized my '07 Acadia buyback on Aug 25. Two days later the recall is issued. I'm not crying though, b/c dealer called me today to tell me that my '09 clave is in and I get GM Employee Price. :happy:

All you dealers going to GM auction, watch out for White Acadia with grease marks on the headliner and life vests in the cargo hold.
 

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micmac said:
This is comical. After 45 days in multiple dealers, GM finalized my '07 Acadia buyback on Aug 25. Two days later the recall is issued. I'm not crying though, b/c dealer called me today to tell me that my '09 clave is in and I get GM Employee Price. :happy:

All you dealers going to GM auction, watch out for White Acadia with grease marks on the headliner and life vests in the cargo hold.
If anyone deserved a break you did. Enjoy that 09 and share comparisons with us of it with your Acadia, when it was "behaving".
BD
 

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Great info thanks! These warnings were critical to us. Had no problems then at 3000 miles, all of a sudden a rear leak, same as everyone else. Cleaning drain tubes by dealer appears to have fixed the problem, but have not checked our VIN to be sure. After swamping our vehicle with water to test it, I'm thinking that those with front leaks may be parking their cars outdoors? True? The amount of water flowing off the roof/front windshield is huge, and the cowl passes lots of water down to the wheel whells (front) but if anything is blocking that drainage path, flow into front firewall is likely - very different from the roof drain fix.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
We got our "recall" letter last week and I am REALLY debating on NOT having the "fix" done. I really hate to have the dealer tear into what has been a PERFECT car so far (almost 1 year and 15,000 miles) and risk creating a problem that isn't there, or causing rattles, etc. I assume that we can wait until September 2009 and even if no issues, we can decide by then whether we want to do this or not? If we refuse to have the fix performed, and have a leak develop say 6 months from now, are we going to have "forfeited" any leverage since we didn't bring it in right away? FWIW, we park outside most of the time and I check it religiously after every rain and car wash with nary a drop showing inside the vehicle. Are others of you without any problems debating NOT getting the fix done? Can any of our GM service people weigh-in? Thanks!
 

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ccaats - Not sure on your specific questions about timeframes, etc. for the recall. BUT, I will tell you that I didn't have any problems with the leak either...UNTIL one day I had a MAJOR problem. It seems to come on all of the sudden (which seems odd given the suppossed reason for the leak - not sure how I managed to not have any leaks for a year then one day BAM - massive leaking).

We got our Enclave last August and never had a problem for an entire year of rain, snow, carwashes, etc. But then a couple weeks ago...after an all day deluge from what was left of Gustav...my interior was soaked.

I wouldn't take my chances...I'd do the fix. I don't know exactly what they have to tear apart to fix the problem (I always worry about that too), but everything was fine for me post-fix.

Trust me...the trauma you experience from one day finding your interior soaking wet will far outweigh any apprehension about what they have to do to fix the problem.
 

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grd398s said:
ccaats - Not sure on your specific questions about timeframes, etc. for the recall. BUT, I will tell you that I didn't have any problems with the leak either...UNTIL one day I had a MAJOR problem. It seems to come on all of the sudden (which seems odd given the suppossed reason for the leak - not sure how I managed to not have any leaks for a year then one day BAM - massive leaking).

We got our Enclave last August and never had a problem for an entire year of rain, snow, carwashes, etc. But then a couple weeks ago...after an all day deluge from what was left of Gustav...my interior was soaked.

I wouldn't take my chances...I'd do the fix. I don't know exactly what they have to tear apart to fix the problem (I always worry about that too), but everything was fine for me post-fix.

Trust me...the trauma you experience from one day finding your interior soaking wet will far outweigh any apprehension about what they have to do to fix the problem.
I thought PApopo brought up a good point the other day. His dealer told him not to use the sunroof until the recall as it was the act of opening and closing it that caused the drain tubes to disconnect which would explain why many of us have not had the problem for several months and then one day your in a fish bowl. Just a thought.
 

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ccaats said:
We got our "recall" letter last week and I am REALLY debating on NOT having the "fix" done. I really hate to have the dealer tear into what has been a PERFECT car so far (almost 1 year and 15,000 miles) and risk creating a problem that isn't there, or causing rattles, etc. I assume that we can wait until September 2009 and even if no issues, we can decide by then whether we want to do this or not? If we refuse to have the fix performed, and have a leak develop say 6 months from now, are we going to have "forfeited" any leverage since we didn't bring it in right away? FWIW, we park outside most of the time and I check it religiously after every rain and car wash with nary a drop showing inside the vehicle. Are others of you without any problems debating NOT getting the fix done? Can any of our GM service people weigh-in? Thanks!
Have it done, if you don't and have a problem in the future it will be your problem that's why I had ours done. Looks just like it did befor the work was done.
 

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grd398s said:
ccaats - Not sure on your specific questions about timeframes, etc. for the recall. BUT, I will tell you that I didn't have any problems with the leak either...UNTIL one day I had a MAJOR problem. It seems to come on all of the sudden (which seems odd given the suppossed reason for the leak - not sure how I managed to not have any leaks for a year then one day BAM - massive leaking).

We got our Enclave last August and never had a problem for an entire year of rain, snow, carwashes, etc. But then a couple weeks ago...after an all day deluge from what was left of Gustav...my interior was soaked.

I wouldn't take my chances...I'd do the fix. I don't know exactly what they have to tear apart to fix the problem (I always worry about that too), but everything was fine for me post-fix.

Trust me...the trauma you experience from one day finding your interior soaking wet will far outweigh any apprehension about what they have to do to fix the problem.
After hearing PaPoPo's horror story and now grd398s and others, I'm going for it. Water problems will put a real damper on the whole Enclave thrill of ownership. Excell advice from all. Many thx!
 

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Discussion Starter #20
Thanks for all the comments and encouragement guys. I guess I am just paranoid that I will have it done, THEN we will have a leak show up, and that will make the wife yell at me and say "why did you let them mess with my car when there was nothing wrong with [email protected]#" I still think I will give my dealership a couple months to get some of these "under their belt" so I can feel confident that they know how to do it correctly. I DON'T want to be the service department's "guinea pig" or "virgin sunroof tube repair". When I was in for my last oil change a couple of months ago and talking to my service advisor, he said that he hadn't had any customers bring in an Enclave OR Acadia with any sunroof leaks that he was aware of. Now, he should have several coming in since the recall letter has gone out.

Just out of curiosity, does any of our GM service tech contacts here have the "official bulletin with pictures" or does anybody know where I can find it. I just want to get a feel in my mind (in picture form) of exactly what is to be done.
 
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