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We purchased our 07 Outlook on December 1st 2007. LOVED ;D it from the moment I drove it off the show room floor UNTIL March 2010 :angryfire:.

78U suggested I post the story, or rather my book, as to what has been going on over here. I have laid open the problems we have been experiencing with the Outlook on the Outlook forum.

So I will do that...although it is rather long and will be broken up in "segments".

I have kept a "log" of everything since March and I promise I won't post everything...just the facts.
 

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June 14, 2010

I am taking my Outlook on the road again for warranty repair…not a leak this time.
Little did I know how "hot a car" my Outlook is.

There is a recall on the windshield fluid heater system because of sudden "flare ups" as in FIRE!

I knew it needed to be done yet I didn't realize how HOT a subject it may be.
DARN they say the car can suddenly catch on fire even if ...it has been sitting! So here I go again.....only trying Reichard on Salem Avenue instead.

I had to laugh because I had the service guy who was making my appointment laughing his rear off this morning. When he answered with the typical greeting I said…"Well hello…This is MM and I have one HOT LITTLE 07 Outlook that I need to bring in".

Silence on the other end for a split second then I heard the low chuckle which by the end of our call was much louder. I then said "Well I guess you are tired of hearing that about now". His response was "not that way and I have to say it is one of the best remarks I have heard in a long time".

So happy to have made his day!

Don't want to deal with Jake Sweeney in Cincinnati, too much hassle over the water leak which, KNOCK ON WOOD, is fixed, so far that is.

Then as for Voss Chevrolet well nope bad experience with them concerning husbands 95 Camaro.

So I will make the drive up to Reichard on Salem Avenue Wednesday morning.
 

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June 23, 2010

OMG I did not get the Outlook to Reichard last Wednesday. I forgot I had to work that day and considering I was leaving on Thursday for a long weekend in Florida with my BFF I cancelled until TODAY!

I was up and about and heading to Reichard Buick by 7:30. Pulled into their service department parking lot, parked the car and ventured inside. WOW their service department is HUGE and the guy I spoke with VERY nice. I was impressed and it takes a lot for any service department to impress me.

So they had on record I was bringing the Outlook in to have the "hot recall" of the windshield fluid heater disconnected, which we will received $100.00 back from Saturn since that option will no longer be used.

Then they also had on record my concern over the "stabilink service" warning message that keeps popping up every so often, no matter whether the road is dry, wet, snowing, driving down a straight road, turning into or out of the driveway and even going around a curve. I have called in and had this looked over at least four times during the 2.5 years we have owned the Outlook. So if they come up with a solution I would be surprised

WELL surprised I was because I just received a phone call from service at Reichard. WOOHOO the stabilink service/traction control message and warning light came on for them this morning. They did some research and THANK GOODNESS FOR WARRANTY!!!! They found that the "timing chain" was stretched in a couple places and when what ever would hit on that stretch it shut off my traction control and the warning light came on.

They will be replacing the timing chain which involves removing the whole front of the engine so it may be Friday or not until Monday before we get the Outlook back.

I have to say one thing….I loved our 03 Saturn VUE which is the ONLY REASON we purchased the 07 Outlook and I love the car but right about now……not so sure anymore.

Don't think husband will be up to replacing the Outlook but AT THIS MOMENT I do not have as much confidence that even when fixed there won't be tons of problems after we get it back.

BUMMER and it has always been a wonderful ride.

SIGHHHHHHH!!!!
 

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June 29, 2010

WOOHOO!!!!

My Outlook is sitting in our driveway looking so……FIXED I hope.

I called Richard Buick service around 11:30 yesterday morning to see if they had the Outlook finished. Steve the service manager I was dealing with said that the "motor was together and back in place" the only thing left was for the tech to take the car for a final spin around the block.

He called back around 3pm and yep it is ready to be picked up. I hesitated and said "HUHHH you have to come down and get me my husband is out of town". OOPS I guess he forgot that part.

I did find out that when they pulled the engine and pulled the timing chain out there were some issues, bad spots, and sooner rather than later it would have failed. I have read that when this happens there are cases that it can damage the cylinders which would be not a good thing. Perhaps I have finally found a good reliable service department to use for the what, the next six months on warranty items. After all we already have a great mechanic here in Centerville, Hilton's Marathon, at least for the next five to eight years, when Ted hopes to retire.

So around 4pm the Reichard ride was in my driveway and I was on my way to get my car.

I will say this….it seems to be better than it was before. You see there would be a slight hesitation when you would press on the gas, at times it was a severe hesitation especially when you put your foot into it when merging onto an interstate. I have over the past 2.5 years mentioned this to dealers when I would bring up the "stabalink" warning message popping on. Obviously service departments just do not pay attention to WOMEN!

So the Outlook appears to be fixed and acts better than before. Fingers crossed.

SOOOOO now all I have to do is drive it like a BAT OUT OF **** to see if it is fixed.

27,730 miles on it now and on 12/01/2010 or 36,000 miles the warranty stops.
 

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July 1, 2010

My husband and I sat down tonight and reviewed the work order on our 07 Outlook. Yes I had read it and.....not happy....yet the decision to get rid of the Outlook doesn't land squarely on my shoulders. (encourage you to help me sway him to ditch the Outlook please)

This is what the work order states they did to my 07 Outlook last week.

To state again I have had issues since March 2008 with the "stabalink needs service" and the "traction control has been disabled" warning message coming on.

I have made a point to bring this up on several occasions to the following dealerships:

1. Jake Sweeney Saturn of Western Hills - Cincinnati (March and June and December 2008)
2. South Dayton Saturn - Centerville (July 2009 and November 2009)
3. Saturn of Kings Auto - Mall still a Saturn dealer at that time - Cincinnati (April 2010)
4. Jake Sweeney of Tri County Saturn service dealer - Cincinnati (April and May 2010)
5. Reichard GMC/Buick - Dayton local Saturn service dealer (June 2010)

So there were EIGHT complaints I have filed on this issue and yet it took Reichard GMC/Buick service department to find the issue on the NINTH complaint.

So here is what is on the work order:

"Inspect test check diagnostic codes, use all available sources to identify failure. Not to be used for brake light bulb failure....stabalink trac light on at times...intermittent rain, dry, anytime, starting or driving. Checked several times elsewhere. CODE P0021 timing chain stretched. Camshaft has excessive end play also. Replace timing chain and add thrust washers and front cylinder head cams."

So now please explain one thing...ISN'T THAT A MAJOR PROBLEM???????? Because when my husband read it his comment was "OH ****!

So now THIS IS WHY I have issues with GM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

It took FIVE DEALERS AND multiple complaints before anybody decided that this needed to be dealt with!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Will I deal with a GM dealer again........Sorry Reichard but well too much time and sure you fixed it but...........


PS: Also, LOL, we did get a $100.00 check from Reichard for disabling the heated washer fluid….also my husband did say that he read where the issues isn't with the manufacture of that component but with GM and the sub quality of wiring installed in their vehicles. Kind of makes me leery as to will we have problems with the wiring down the road?
 

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August 4, 2010

On Saturday when we were driving over the Smokey Mountain to Cherokee from Gatlinburg it was raining cats and dogs. Our BFF's Lisa/John and Mary Sue/Dave had joined us for another fun filled vacation. Lisa and John were sitting in the third row when suddenly Lisa yelled…"MM it is raining in back here"! **** the water was running down the seat belt harness and soaking Lisa. About that time my husband made a sharp turn left, you know Mountains, and well I yelped because water poured from under the dash on the passenger side and soaked my right foot.
GRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Okay actually I said "WTF"!!!!!!!!!!! Tried calling Reichard Buick/GMC/Saturn service and just missed them by FIVE MINUTES!

So now this is not the entire story. On the way back on Sunday the warning message appeared again. Yep the one that says "traction control inoperative"…"stabalink needs service"….that message. You know the one that has kept popping up since March 2008, three…okay four months after we purchased the NEW 07 OUTLOOK! Yep the same one that popped up an error code which directed Reichard Buick/GMC/Saturn service to replace the TIMING CHAIN AND CRANK SHAFT last month!

So I called Reichard Monday and made an appointment to get the Outlook in for WARRANTY WORK AGAIN! I drove the Outlook up to Reichard Buick/GMC this morning and while there the service manager pulled up the "repair/warranty work" history report on our car based on the VIN# which listed us as the owners and such.

He was reviewing it and out of the blue asked "did we have the engine replaced in July 2009?" I said WHAT????? UHHH NOPE!!! The only engine work performed on our 07 Outlook was what they did last month....timing chain/crank shaft replacement and the mileage was only 27016 miles on it at that time.

Well shucks and **** if there isn't an entry posted by a Saturn dealership located in Knoxville, Tennessee during the last week of July 2009. They reported a total replacement of the engine and the mileage reported was 34,040 miles.

HUMMMM nope our car only has, as of this morning, 29,021 miles on it and has NEVER been to the Knoxville dealership.

So here are my questions to you guys?

1. Have you ever heard of this happening before?
2. Could someone in Knoxville replaced a "friends" engine and found a vehicle matching theirs to charge the engine back to GM on?
3. Or could there just be an innocent mix-up?

The service manager was contacting GM today to get this mystery straightened out and get it cleared from the "history" reporting of our Outlook.

He and I are thinking that this is a "friend" needing an engine my husband thinks it is just a mix-up.

Kind of odd because you would think that they would know the difference in the names on the initial work order and the final order printed out to be signed.

The mystery deepens as well as the crap of getting the water leaks/traction control issues FIXED!

OH and also the water leak....This is the SIXTH time since the end of March for water leak repair. FIVE times in five weeks to two dealers in Cincinnati and still when it rains it pours into the car. Only this time it wasn't pouring in from the roof.
 

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August 5, 2010

Good evening friends!

UPDATE!

Spoke with Reichard Buick this afternoon.

They replaced "additional drain lines" AND they also replaced the seals around both sunroofs. Steve says that there are no more leaks…..yea he better be right. They reinstalled the headliner and are waiting on the OK on replacing the carpeting. Edit to note...carpeting NOT being replace was told to just "clean it" and spray some "febreeze" on it. Hope I don't have an asthma attack while driving. :angryfire:

They have not completed the diagnostic test for the traction control/stabalink warning message. He said they would get to that tomorrow.

So now as for the "engine replacement" at Saturn of Knoxville….NOT OUR SATURN…they have not heard back from their GM ZONE manager.

I think tomorrow I will see if Steve at Reichard can contact the Knoxville dealership to see if they could fax the work order up to them. Perhaps we can figure out what name/signature is on the "signed work order" which should make it apparent that it was not our Outlook.

And the wait continues!

Okay such DRAMA and well…a friend…yes you Carol…suggested the Outlook would look pretty good hanging out in the showroom window. You know half in the showroom and half still outside. Mind you she said it not me, just in case.

Have a great evening folks I am getting ready to pour myself a glass of wine.
 

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August 6, 2010

WHAT A WEEK~

I heard from Reichard about 15 minutes ago. They told me that they have to REMOVE A REAR VALVE COVER to take a peek. This is what they have been told by GM to do. Supposedly by doing this they will be able to see the timing chain without pulling the front of the motor off again.

They will not get to this until Monday so looks like it will be Tuesday before....wishful thinking....I get my Outlook back.

[email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected][email protected]!

OH and here what I was also told.....their service department has had SIX OF THESE VEHICLES....NOT JUST SATURN'S....run through their department with the SAME PROBLEM!!!!!!!!!!!!

In other words I AM GETTING REALLY P-I-S-S-E-D OFF more and more everyday with GM!

SO NOW "DETECTIVE MM IS AT WORK".

GM zone still has not replied back to Reichard concerning the "VIN#" being used by a dealer in Knoxville.

So I decided to call Saturn of Knoxville service department myself and after I explained to Matt why I was calling and gave him the last "eight numbers" of the VIN# I was asked if:

1. Did I buy the car used......NOPE IT HAD 8 MILES ON IT WHEN WE DROVE IT OFF THE SHOW ROOM FLOOR
2. Did we have the car in their dealership for repair at anytime....NOPE I LIVE IN CENTERVILLE, OHIO SO DRIVING ALMOST SIX HOURS FOR REPAIR IS
3. How many miles do I have on the car.....JUST OVER 29000
4. Are you sure of the miles......HECK YES
5. What color is your Outlook....SILVER

So he puts me on hold and must be fussing around looking for the work order. Then he comes back and:

6. Can I have your phone number and call you right back....WAITING WAITING WAITING FOR THAT CALL BACK

Well at least Reichard Buick (Steven) said it doesn't leak anymore! THAT is something I refuse to take any bets on.

Same day just 20 minutes later

WOW I just hung up the phone with "Matt", "Saturn of Knoxville" which is now "Cadillac of Knoxville".

He said that it looks like one of their "techs" entered a number wrong when they did the engine replacement for SOMEONE?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA sorry but I think it had to be more than just one number, okay that is my opinion.

We talked for a couple minutes because I asked him if he could pull out the "signed job order" and see whose name is signed on the work order.

WELL......he didn't know what good that would do...like DUHHH....it could give a name of one of their ACTUAL CUSTOMERS! (Beginning to sound like an inside job to me)

Then I said that I really needed to have their repair order removed from my cars history. After all our Saturn DID NOT have an engine replaced and it doesn't look good showing as if one was replaced.

He said he would call me back.....WAITING WAITING...okay if I don't hear back by "high noon" Monday I will give him a ringy-dingy.

WHEW what a dramatic week!
Have a great weekend folks because I am heading out to dinner.....I hear a couple "cosmos's" calling me.

ROFLMAO!!!! You know what I just figured out….after re-reading all of this? Not only did GM dig into the tax payers pockets to help bail them out BUT they can drive one to drink. Let me see how many glasses of wine and cosmos I have consumed during all of this BULLSHIT!
 

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August 9, 2010

Called Steve at “Reichard Buick” around noon and they have not pulled the rear valve cover off probably won’t get to it until tomorrow. BUMMER!
He and I talked about my call to “Knoxville” and the issue with my Outlook showing a total engine replacement charged against it. He spoke with several within “Reichard” and they agree it can’t be just a “number” entered incorrectly. After all, the numbers run consecutive across all the “twins” of our Outlook, Buick Enclave, GMC Acadia, Chevrolet Traverse and Saturn Outlook. The only change at the factory is whether it is designated as a GMC, Buick, Chevrolet or Saturn so it can’t be just ONE number it has to be a number AND the alpha letter designation. GRRR!!!!

So it is 4:05 and I just finished a conversation with Matt at the Knoxville Dealership. He is still checking on how to get this “changed” within the “global GM” records. He said that as far as he and the service manager have pretty much decided that this cannot be done yet he will let me know.

I told him I would appreciate him letting me know because if he cannot I will just contact GM myself about getting this handled.

Perhaps that wasn’t a wise move but this “bullshit” does make me think something is fishy in Knoxville.

I called Steve at “Richard Buick” back around 4:10 to ask if he could ‘open” up the detailed information on the work order showing the engine replacement by Knoxville. He is to print it off and I said I would be up early tomorrow to pick the copy up as it looks like I may have to contact GM myself to get the “engine replacement” off my record.
 

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August 9, 2010 – 4:15PM

As you know I have been dealing with the dealership in Knoxville, the one who installed an engine into a vehicle and used our VIN#. (they are total idiots)

Let me think....okay here are my thoughts about this:
- in order to change or rather correct their mistake they would have to contact GM (thinking they do not want to do that)
- they would then have to find out what vehicle they actually installed the engine into
- to find out who's car has the new engine they have to pull out the original work order from 2009 and see if they can decipher the signature
- they would have to explain to GM that okay yes they charged GM back on a warranty for an engine but but but the engine actually went into this vehicle and not the 07 Outlook
- if they installed an engine into a vehicle and they find the vehicle was not under warranty and the customer should have PAID for it do you think the dealership would be happy that they now have to PAY GM back for an engine
- or perhaps and I am being rather.....the dealership could have charged the customer AND collected from GM the hours involved....double dipping...heck government workers do it so why not this dealership.

Sorry folks but right now I am laughing my ass off because well.....

YEP so after my call to Matt I contacted a GM representative who I found taking a peek on “Acadia” message board site with owners of GM Acadia and even Traverse and the Outlook come to discuss their vehicles and yes bitch as well.

After I sent to her all the information I have pertaining to our Outlook she said she will get back with me within two business days.

She apologized for the problems we are having, especially with the Knoxville dealership, and she will get this straightened out.

YIPPEE.....okay a bit premature yet if she does pull this off my confidence in GM will rise ever so slightly...perhaps not enough to buy another GM yet enough to....tone down my bitching....okay reality just kicked in...nope sorry can't help myself it is that bitchiness in me that always shows.
 

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August 10, 2010

At 9 am I drove in my trusty 2003 red Saturn VUE to Reichard. As soon as I walked into the service department Steve saw me heading his way. By the time I reached his station he had pulled from under some papers a stack of nine pages stapled together.

WOOHOO this fine gentlemen had printed off in detail what I had requested. Each and every service work performed on the 2007 Outlook and he even highlighted in yellow those belonging to Saturn of Knoxville. I must admit when I saw that I let out a slight snicker.

I thanked him and I also told him that I had contacted GM late yesterday afternoon and he just looked at me and smiled and said “good hope you get this cleared up”.
So I thanked him and headed out to the trusty VUE and headed back home.

Yea they had not pulled the valve cover off yet so still waiting to see if what I think is wrong really is.
 

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August 11, 2010

The total irony of it all.

Just returned from Reichard with a rental car this morning.

You are going to love this one. They gave me a really used Buick LeSabre with 268,985 miles on it, yep over 200,000 miles AND this is the really funny part. The service tech when he handed me the keys said "Oh by the way the "service engine" light is on...don't worry its' the gas tank cap and we haven't got around to taking care of it".

YEP I just roared laughing over that one...and said good one you have my Outlook in, which by the way you will be taking the head off the motor AGAIN, and you put me in a car with the service engine light on.
How so very very not funny.

Received a call from Steve at Reichard….yep they are taking the head off the Outlook.

They have to replace a “front cylinder” and the “crank shaft actuator”. I am in really a pissed off mood right about now.
 

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August 13, 2010

Outlook is still at the dealership....removal of the head in order to replace a front piston and the crank shaft actuator. Thinking since this is the second time in 30 days probably should just have a new engine dropped in. What do you think? Let me know okay!

The "loaner"....not fun to drive squishy shocks and that darn check engine light...way too funny.

Don't think I will hear anything back on my Outlook until the first of the week.

So then as for the "engine replacement in 2009" which WAS NOT DONE (like I just said...although probably should be done NOW) I have a message that I will be contacted by the 16th of August as to whether they "will" remove that from my Outlook's vehicle repair report.

SOOOO another weekend of....NOTHING!!!! Except of course dinner out with friends and since my husband doesn't drink and is the "DD" Saturday is looking to be a whole lot of fun.
 

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Well folks I hope you were not bored. :popcorn:

Enjoy your evening and weekend because as usual mine is always an adventure!

:wine:
 

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and I hear some owner's complain about how their USB port doesn't work with their iPhone............... :facepalm:

We should all be thankful our Lambda's aren't in the same league as this Outlook

Well done sailfish :thumb:
 

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AA/78U said:
and I hear some owner's complain about how their USB port doesn't work with their iPhone............... :facepalm:

We should all be thankful our Lambda's aren't in the same league as this Outlook

Well done sailfish :thumb:
:friday:
 

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This saga reminds me a bit of that by a prior Enclave owner/forum member PAPoPo. Some of you may want to review his profile to see some of the $hi+ frustrations that he endured. Also, currently, lucasszy is posting his trials and tribulations with his Enclave in the following thread:

http://www.enclaveforum.net/index.php?topic=6592.0

:popcorn: :beer: :popcorn: :wine: :popcorn: :popcorn:
 

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Moral to this story: Do not buy first year out (especially on an entirely new platform). Not that this happens all the time, but most of this is the fault of the first year "bugs".

Other thing, this woman has received the worst customer service in history. I thought Saturn dealers were supposed to have great service, better than the rest of GM. Sounds like that was a myth. ::)

As for the loaner vehicle: :facepalm: :facepalm: :facepalm: ARE YOU KIDDING ME? That vehicle would probably not even be on the used lot, but rather wholesaled. They have NO business giving you that car to drive, that's nuts....even if the LeSabre with the 3800 is quite reliable, it's not good business sense. They should have a new to two year old vehicle, similar in size to the Outlook, bottom line. GM vehicles are better than average by a long shot, but it's the customer service that turns customers away. I've never had to deal with a problem vehicle, but I do know the "deer in the headlight" look they give me when I try and talk to them about possible problems that might happen, and if I need the TSB's done....they act like they've NEVER heard of those problems before. B.S., I really get tired of hearing that one. '


Here's my 2 cents, but I know it won't change your mind. Treat each vehicle as an individual item, not the norm for all GM vehicles. And, treat each dealer as a separate run business aside from GM, because that's what they are, privately owned, and that is the problem. But unfortunately they have to abide by what GM pays them for service and warranty work, so they feel like their hands are tied with servicing the customer, and it's that fact that causes these people working at the service departments to have terrible attitudes, because they can't control a lot of what happens. This is by no means an excuse for poor customer service, but only an explaination as to what's reality.

Thanks for sharing your story. It's not like your vehicle had a ton of problems, just it took a very long time, and many service visits to get things done and that's the major issue here.

Enjoy your weekend, and your beverages. :beer: :friday:
 

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Thanks for the replies! ;D

We have a fine dependable mechanic I have used for 17 years and who takes care of our 03 VUE and our 05 Nissan 350Z and 07 Outlook (non warranty items) as well as previous cars. I called him after I found out about the "second invasion" of the engine. His comment was "No ****....get rid of it!". This guy is good I had Sable which had high miles on it and he kept it together until one day the air-conditioner went out and he said "don't put anymore money into this...get rid of it" and I did without the air-conditioner working. He never sold me any service I did not need. He and I talk about our cars and he knows I am no fool when it comes to the mechanical operations of a vehicle.

He also gave me the name of a lawyer.....my husband is thinking really seriously about this. Me well..... >:D

I know with what is being done to the Outlook right now will only lower the resale value even more and **** when GM closed Saturn that was a big enough hit. :'(

Now as for the "loaner" I was as shocked as you when that is what I was given. I looked at the service tech and my comment was "You have got to be kidding!"

Yep should have given me an Acadia especially if they want to keep me as a future customer.
 

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Oh and "PS" the LeSabre....have not driven it since I brought it home. My husband was as floored as I was when I told him what they gave me to drive. After all I really should have insisted on one....let me think...almost TWO WEEKS AGO!

It is sitting in the driveway...perhaps should be on the street instead.

Driving my TRUSTY 03 VUE!!!! Love that VUE more and more every day!!! :thumb:
 
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