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I was trained in the old days, with 1000 mile oil change. I even worked in gas stations and did a whole bucnch of lube/oil/filter changes. Zirc fittings!! Todays cars say 3 or 5K.
My Enclave is 5+ months old, has 3300 miles on the clock and the DIC says I have 63% of oil life left.
Any thoughts from some more knowledgeable people?
 

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REDCXL said:
I was trained in the old days, with 1000 mile oil change. I even worked in gas stations and did a whole bunch of lube/oil/filter changes. Zinc fittings!! Todays cars say 3 or 5K.
My Enclave is 5+ months old, has 3300 miles on the clock and the DIC says I have 63% of oil life left.
Any thoughts from some more knowledgeable people?
There are no cars for which a 3 or 5k oil change is recommended. The trend is toward 10k to 12k. Only establishments that are set to gain from your oil change business recommend 3k oil changes.

Honda: 10k
Porsche: 15k
Mercedes: 12k
Volkswagen: 10k+
Buick: DIC, which may turn out to be from 6k to 12k depending on how you use the vehicle.
I believe Toyota is still at 7.5k

Oil should be changed, with filter always, at least once a year even for lower mileage per recommendations.

Severe duty is different and usually can cut interval in half.

And what amazes me is the lack of compliance with type and viscosity of oil - just changing it won't do any good if its the wrong oil. Following manufacturer recommendations is the way to go.

TM
 

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That's all great, but I still believe in changing the oil at 1000 miles for a new vehicle. There are metal flakes early on from the new engine etc. I had mine changed after the first 1000 and then have gone by the DIC which has been one change at 8000 miles so 7000 from the first one.
 

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I've been driving for over 50 years, with probably 2 million miles clocked. I've owned about 20 cars (mostly used), worked as a "mechanic" since I was 15, and until recently, always did my own maintenance. That said, I go by the owners' manual. If GM engineers suggest that I use the DIC for oil changes, that's what I do. They get paid the "big bucks", so why should I use 50 year-old technology to service a new car? Remember when you needed a tune-up every 10,000 miles, changed the "anti-freeze" and thermostat every Spring and Fall, and yes, had to do a valve job just about every 20,000 miles? Not to mention changing the "rear-end" oil and re-packing the wheel bearings, lubricating the water pump and drive shaft universals, etc., etc. Well, motor oil has come a long way. (Remember, oil filters used to be "add-ons" and were not "full-flow".) Follow the Owners' Manual...GM built their warrantee on it. If they goofed (I'm sure they didn't), then they'll have to back it.
Oh, and don't believe that there are microscopic "bits" of metal in an engine from the "break-in" period. That hasn't been the case since the '32 Willys-Knight sleeve-valve engine!
 

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Using the Kublin(Dexie Synthetics) method to calculate oil life a suggested interval for Mobil One in typical service would be about 5900 miles assuming the Enclave is averaging 17mpg. You can find the Kublin formula at this URL:

http://neptune.spacebears.com/cars/stories/interval.html

The formula attempts to consider the TBN of the oil along with an approximation as to the severity of service by using the engine displacement/horsepower and the MPG as an indication of the type of service.

Having said that, I will err to the side of slightly greater frequency than would be specified by Kublin's method.
 

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KCorey said:
Oh, and don't believe that there are microscopic "bits" of metal in an engine from the "break-in" period. That hasn't been the case since the '32 Willys-Knight sleeve-valve engine!
Well I certainly wasn't attempting to lie and I don't appreciate the accusation. I went with what my dealer recommended and since they sell GM etc. which is the same logic as the rest of your post, I did what they suggested for the reason they suggested. I know it certainly did not hurt to be careful.
 

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bsox said:
Well I certainly wasn't attempting to lie and I don't appreciate the accusation. I went with what my dealer recommended and since they sell GM etc. which is the same logic as the rest of your post, I did what they suggested for the reason they suggested. I know it certainly did not hurt to be careful.
When synthetics first came out, they were so superior to regular oil that many engine builders/rebuilders didn't like to use it since it didn't "break in" or "seat" the cylinder liners/piston rings. The "metal particles" may actually have a purpose in engine break-in for all we know.

Today's tech certainly has no mention of metal particles as it did in the old days and may actually depend on keeping the factory fill oil longer for proper break in.

bsox, in all fairness, you have no evidence of what you say/believe and KCorey did not aim any accusations at you. The dealer telling you to change the oil earlier than the manufacturer recommends is an interesting thing. I don't know why the dealer would do that except perhaps to go along with the urban legend of frequent oil changes to make it look like he/she cares. Maybe to get you in the habit of using the dealer instead of Jiffy Lube.

The failure rate of engines due to oil related issues is exceedingly rare nowadays. More can be said about using the wrong oil than doing it less frequently.

TM
 

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my enclave came with a free year, unlimited mileage, of oil changes. The dealer wants me in every 3000 for the change....they arent making money on me so why would they suggest this schedule? My neighbor is a GM mechanic for 26 years and always say its easier and cheaper to change oil than change an engine, By the time you see the effects of not changing regularly you warranty is long gone....Ill continue to change it every 3 to 5000. I respect others decisions to do differently.
 

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PAPoPo said:
my enclave came with a free year, unlimited mileage, of oil changes. The dealer wants me in every 3000 for the change....they aren't making money on me so why would they suggest this schedule? My neighbor is a GM mechanic for 26 years and always say its easier and cheaper to change oil than change an engine, By the time you see the effects of not changing regularly you warranty is long gone....Ill continue to change it every 3 to 5000. I respect others decisions to do differently.
I'd be curious for you to ask your neighbor how many engines he had to replace due to oil related issues, especially when following manufacturers recommendations.

I guess your dealer will continue to provide free oil changes after the one year is up? Will the dealer use synthetic or regular oil?

TM
 

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My dealer just sent out a letter recommending that everyone follow the owners manual or the oil life monitor rather than every 3K miles. Of course they then recommended that we use synthetic with the longer drain intervals, but I was surprised a dealer would recommend less.

I change my own so I did not really care.
 

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I like to change my own oil and use a synthetic that the dealer does not use. So if I change my own oil under warranty, how does this impact the warranty?

Press
 

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press said:
I like to change my own oil and use a synthetic that the dealer does not use. So if I change my own oil under warranty, how does this impact the warranty?

Press
It shouldn't/doesn't. Just make certain you keep the receipts from the oil and filters that you purchase. I would also enter the date and mileage into a maintenance log for records just in case you have a warranty issue.
 

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mobil 1 every 5000 miles. Works for me.
 

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gmf101 said:
Mobil 1 every 5000 miles. Works for me.
Waste of good oil. Any premium regular oil will do just as well. Try hydrocracked Pennzoil if you insist on 5k intervals. It is very close to type III synthetic anyway and you'll save a bundle.

Mobil-1 is designed for extended intervals. It has methylated carbon chains that resist acid breakdown better than any conventional oil so you don't get sludge or viscosity breakdown. You don't need as many viscosity improvers either so it lasts much longer.

It should last 15,000 miles easy. Depending on conditions, you will be getting rid of pretty good oil at the 10,000 mile mark! I know people have even re-used such oil in their lawn mowers etc. it is so good.

Just follow the manufacturer's recommendations. Spend the money you save on a good wax job or high quality filter etc.

TM
 

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It's interesting to note that in some of the extended oil life testing, even though viscosity, flashpoint, insolubles and TBN numbers remained good at 15,000-18,000 miles on Mobil One when determined by analysis(with some metrics even improving as the mileage increased), the engines under test began to run at higher oil pressures and with detectable changes in performance as the 18,000 mile mark was reached. This is of concern because it demonstrates that conditions can exist in which the oil will test fine, but all is not well in the engine.

If one is going to push for extreme change intervals, it might make sense to go with the Amsoil product over Mobil One, as it seems to have a higher TBN out of the bottle. You could probably be comfortable running the Amsoil product out to 30,000 miles or so in an Enclave. If you are looking for that kind of interval, you might want to invest in a sample analysis or two during the change interval.

Change interval continues to be a subject of debate, as demonstrated here. While I used to live under the mantra of "oil is cheaper than bearings", my thinking on the subject has changed somewhat. There is no really good argument in favor of the 3,000 mile change when using a modern synthetic oil under normal passenger car conditions. In fact, some research indicates that too frequent changes actually cause greater engine wear. What has been found in such testing is that the concentration of wear metals accumulates at a far greater rate during the first 3,000 miles than it does later in the oil life. Those who are relying on the 3,000 mile interval may, in fact, be shortening the life of their engine.

If you do aim for intervals greater than 15,000 miles, please ensure to keep your oil level consistent during the period and consider a filter change if you go much beyond 15,000. These actions can help keep the oil performance at an acceptable level.

In the end, what is the "right" number? The Kublin formula that I mentioned in an earlier post seems to have some degree of realism when projecting the point at which TBN will begin to decline. You may be able to use it toward deciding on an interval. I'm currently leaning toward using Amsoil and a 10,000 mile change, but continue to review data.
 

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KCorey said:
(edited for space)
Oh, and don't believe that there are microscopic "bits" of metal in an engine from the "break-in" period. That hasn't been the case since the '32 Willys-Knight sleeve-valve engine!
Wear metals are standard factors in any lab analysis of engine oil, whether taken after a "break-in" or during later service. Levels of iron, copper, lead, and other metals are detected to determine the rate at which they collect in the engine oil.
 

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Thanks deacon_blues for the thoughts.

Amsoil is a controversial company that makes some unsubstantiated claims, such as manufacturer compliant specifications, but nevertheless has some very good oil. I would not propose to go further than manufacturer recommendations on drain interval, but would not doubt the longevity claims of an oil either. To view the debates about Amsoil, one just needs to google it and see how much opinion and sales hype there is on the Internet.

The theory of higher wear early in the oil change interval was disproven, at least with the data there exists so far. It was found to be simply the dilutional factor of left-over oil and was figured out mathematically/statistically.

As to metal pieces floating in oil, yes, wear metals are measured in used oil analysis, but they are far from being floating pieces of metal grinding down the cylinders or bearings. They are chemicals measured to see how much metal wear is occurring and are on a nano-particle or molecular level. There is no belief or evidence that they themselves contribute to the significant portion of wear, just that they are more indicators that wear is occurring. This is especially true since other metals are used for additives to help lubricity.

As to thinking that measuring the oil quality is enough to know its good, well, that is a page out of the scientific evidence based guide book. Its impossible to test every aspect of oil, at least not on a retail level, and its the end result that matters anyway. You can argue until blue in the face about testing parameters etc. but unless they matter in real life, it can be irrelevant and misleading. My comments about replacing engines due to oil change interval related problems address this directly. I have not heard of any non-racing application where engine failure was due to any oil related issue except as you mention, lack thereof!

The myth still exists to change oil frequently, and you or I cannot fix that. Its human nature to believe in anything that makes sense at the time with the facts at hand.

TM
 

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Oil discussions make my brain hurt. I figure I'll just stick with oil changes somewhere between 5K and 10K or based on DIC and call it a day.
 

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BSOX...I'm sincerely sorry if you think I was insulting you...I never meant any kind of a put-down. As far as oil change mileage goes, I think that motor oil has improved so much over the years that it really is not necessary to change it as we once used to. So, what about the "service techs" at the dealers when they suggest 3,000 mile intervals? Well, when I had a 2002 Olds, the dealer I bought it from had a fire in their service department. When I brought it to another dealer for service (about 12,000 miles), the service writer suggested about $600. in "service" stating that the Owners' Manual was wrong in specifiying such long mileage on certain items (transmission fluid changes, coolant changes, PCV's, etc.). I only had him change the oil and filter, and have never gone back there. Yes, I informed the Service Manager and the dealership owner as to what happened. Basically, they just shrugged their shoulders. So, what's the long and short of it? I plan to keep my Enclave for 48,000 miles and then turn it in for a new car (Enclave?). True, I guess if I was going to keep it longer maybe I'd step up the service frequencies. But as long as this is what GM is advising, (and I always get the car serviced at a good GM dealer) I feel that I'm not hurting the car and I'm "safe".
Again, I certainly did not mean to insult you in any way. I respect your, and most of the members, opinions and discussions.
 

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Thanks, I just took offense when you followed my post with a specific statement that said not to believe what I had just posted. I am sure you were talking in general terms and not aimed at me specifically. I will not pretend to know the right answer as I was just doing what the service manager and dealer told me to do and why to do it. It probably is old advise as TM, you, and others have clearly stated. Thanks for apologizing I should not have been so quick to react. Who knows the right answer...(I do feel better having done the 1000 mile change, maybe that is the only reason to do it). :thumb:
 
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