2012 ENCLAVE FWD 19" Wheels pulls to left and crosses centerline IF not held to keep going straight. Steering wheel also left at 11:00 o'clock. This is not a light touch to maintain course, it is a constant pressure to keep the steering wheel straight and the car moving straight within the lane. I took car to dealer on January 10th 2012 and they aligned front end, but when they did a test drive, the car still had same problem. They realigned it again but no luck. Right side was out of spec and STRUT is designed in a fixed position and not adjustable. Call to GM and answer was to remove STRUT and make round mounting hole into a slot so that adjustment is possible. Still did not fix problem. Mechanic moved tires around and did another test drive but still no improvement. Mechanic performed Wheel Position Center Alignment but still no improvement. Another call to GM for about 20 minutes resulted in the answer, “Pulling left is a characteristic of that vehicle with that configuration and that size tires”. Service manager was very courteous and helpful, but said there wasn’t any more that they could do since everything was in spec and GM says it is a characteristic of the car.
enclave952
I would drive several of the other 2012 models they have on the lot with the same tires as yours. See if they exhibit that same "characteristic" drive feel.
The service department must have thought something was wrong to have done all those repairs and adjustments, even following suggestions from the factory. Now the factory is saying basically it's normal?
Good luck
The service department must have thought something was wrong to have done all those repairs and adjustments, even following suggestions from the factory. Now the factory is saying basically it's normal?
Good luck
I drove an identical new vehicle and it exhibited the same problem, but not quite as severe as my car.
The mechanic worked on the vehicle for 3.5 hours and had me drive it so we could discuss the problem. He stated that it would cause my tires to wear, so he was sure that it was a problem.
Yes -- GM said that it was not a problem but a characteristic of that model.
The mechanic worked on the vehicle for 3.5 hours and had me drive it so we could discuss the problem. He stated that it would cause my tires to wear, so he was sure that it was a problem.
Yes -- GM said that it was not a problem but a characteristic of that model.
Wow!
First I've read about this problem on a 2012, or really on any year model Lambda.
As for the steering wheel being in the 11 o'clock position, that can be removed and reinstalled pretty easily by the service department, but it won't have any effect on the pulling to the left.
I really don't have any other suggestions myself, but hope someone else can help.
Just curious, how many miles on it now? How high up the corporate ladder with GM do you want to try and take it? There is a customer service rep on these boards who might be able to help you if you want to pursue this with GM.
First I've read about this problem on a 2012, or really on any year model Lambda.
As for the steering wheel being in the 11 o'clock position, that can be removed and reinstalled pretty easily by the service department, but it won't have any effect on the pulling to the left.
I really don't have any other suggestions myself, but hope someone else can help.
Just curious, how many miles on it now? How high up the corporate ladder with GM do you want to try and take it? There is a customer service rep on these boards who might be able to help you if you want to pursue this with GM.
Here are the links to 2 threads regarding a similar issue. The problem involves a 2010 Enclave with 20" rims that pulled to the left at highway speed. I am not sure if the problem was ever resolved.
http://www.enclaveforum.net/index.php?topic=6042.0
http://www.enclaveforum.net/index.php?topic=5992.0
http://www.enclaveforum.net/index.php?topic=6042.0
http://www.enclaveforum.net/index.php?topic=5992.0
My Enclave has 3200 Miles on it and I really like the car. I want to escalate this to whatever level of GM that is necessary to get this problem fixed. I think starting with a Factory representative would be great. Thanks for the links to the "2010 New AWD" post that had the same problem. The last page of that post indicates she exchanged her Enclave for a Yukon but details of the swap were not given.Evidently GM could not fix her problem. If a GM Representative is reading these posts, I would like to discuss this situation with you. Thanks everbody for your inputs and help.
Stacy
I really appreciate that. I have sent you a PM with info you requested. Some additional info is that the Service Technician said that the Wheel Alignment was PERFECT when he put it on the Rack the first time, but it was pulling Left so he tried to adjust the alignment to compensate for the pull but was unable to solve the problem.
I really appreciate that. I have sent you a PM with info you requested. Some additional info is that the Service Technician said that the Wheel Alignment was PERFECT when he put it on the Rack the first time, but it was pulling Left so he tried to adjust the alignment to compensate for the pull but was unable to solve the problem.
Give Stacy the information that she is requesting. When I had so many issues getting the Outlook repaired when they had the engine dropped, not once but twice, Michelle put me in touch with a GM CSR to get the issues and my concerns resolved.enclave952 said:
Good luck.
A further update. I received an email form Your Buick Team wanting to know how likely I was to Recommend a Buick to my friends. I responded with 2% Likely and a screen appeared to describe my problem. Next day I got an email from a CSR that she had my information and was doing some research. She called me this morning and informed me that she contacted the dealer and the technical support rep and the Service Department at the dealership had driven 2 new enclaves and both exhibited the Pull to the Left. The technical support rep told her this was a normal characteristic of that car so she says they can't repair anything since it is all in Spec and it is a Normal Characteristic.
This was NOT Stacy, we have exchanged a few PM's and I think she is still working on it.
This was NOT Stacy, we have exchanged a few PM's and I think she is still working on it.
This most certainly is NOT* normal! Also, GM knows what the car's normal characteristics are, and would not need for the dealer to test drive other vehicles on their lot to find out. The response you got was utter and complete :bs: Do not keep pushing their buttons until this is resolved by a fix or replacement vehicle. The worst case scenario would be to enact your State's Lemon Law if GM does not make this ridiculous situation right.enclave952 said:
*My assumption is that your car constantly pulls significantly to the left, per your complaint.
Yes GoldenEnclave - It pulls to the left anytime I drive. It is just more noticeable above 30 mph. When I Hold it straight, it feels like I am fighting the Hydraulics. I will continue to put pressure on them to fix the problem. It is probably going to be hard to get the dealer to do much since they have been told it is normal. They certainly did not think it was Normal when they experienced the problem and spent approx 4 hours trying to fix it.
No car is built to pull left or right with the exception of a NASCAR.
It is designed to track neutral. I would ask if they did a full alignment - front to back side to side, also did they set castor /camber angles, what is the tire wear like, can you see ant feathering on either edge showing it is over centering. I would have them check for drive line bind, brake run out and maybe even joint play.
no car pulls, as roads are built with camber to shed water you are having to both fight that and the car - this is not advanced engineering this is a fault.
I had a major drive ability issue with my first E and it went back.
as others have said utter BS.
It is designed to track neutral. I would ask if they did a full alignment - front to back side to side, also did they set castor /camber angles, what is the tire wear like, can you see ant feathering on either edge showing it is over centering. I would have them check for drive line bind, brake run out and maybe even joint play.
no car pulls, as roads are built with camber to shed water you are having to both fight that and the car - this is not advanced engineering this is a fault.
I had a major drive ability issue with my first E and it went back.
as others have said utter BS.
I will ask them on Monday what type alignment they performed, the work order is not very specific. Both front tires look perfect (No Feathuring only 3200 miles on car). I think they assumed that the only thing that would CAUSE a pull is misalignment of front wheels and that is all they checked. The checks you raised are very valid, I was considering that it might be a Steering Assist Hydraulic problem such as a sticky valve that keeps pressure even on both sides of Rack & Pinion.
Thanks for your support!
Thanks for your support!
I don't know how/why things have changed so much in the area of customer service, but with a car when I was in college, I had a "$99.95 lifetime alignment" and so I'd align my car every 4 mos, probably 3X as often as normal. Each time I'd go, I'd actually see the vehicle pulled onto the rack so I knew it wasn't a wall job. Then, they would hand me a printout from the machine, and show me each value and explain if they had to set anything or not. Granted it was a RWD car so only the front was adjustable. If the Buick dealer did throw the vehicle on the rack, they can very easily show the OP the printout, which will either sustain or deny the statement that it's within spec. If it is within spec, then either it's fine, or something else is wrong.
I remember having a perfectly aligned car driving in I-87N in NYS to Montreal. As soon as we would go over the US border, the vehicle would drift to the right or the left, due to the crest on the highway. When back in the US, it would stop and the vehicle would track perfectly straight. my .02...
I remember having a perfectly aligned car driving in I-87N in NYS to Montreal. As soon as we would go over the US border, the vehicle would drift to the right or the left, due to the crest on the highway. When back in the US, it would stop and the vehicle would track perfectly straight. my .02...
Customer service has improved greatly since the 70's. I remember having a Firestone service center TRY and tell me I needed a total exhaust replacement on my 68 Plymouth Fury III. That is including the manifold pipes back all the way to the end. I told them NOPE I only needed a section replaced as the muffler and tailpipe were replaced the year before. As for the manifold pipes **** no. They disagreed again and I told them to take it down off the lift and I would come and pick it up. Fifteen minutes later they called and said they could replace the pipe from the muffler to the manifold pipes. Like DUHHH!john 070 said:I don't know how/why things have changed so much in the area of customer service, but with a car when I was in college, I had a "$99.95 lifetime alignment" and so I'd align my car every 4 mos, probably 3X as often as normal. Each time I'd go, I'd actually see the vehicle pulled onto the rack so I knew it wasn't a wall job. Then, they would hand me a printout from the machine, and show me each value and explain if they had to set anything or not. Granted it was a RWD car so only the front was adjustable. If the Buick dealer did throw the vehicle on the rack, they can very easily show the OP the printout, which will either sustain or deny the statement that it's within spec. If it is within spec, then either it's fine, or something else is wrong.
I remember having a perfectly aligned car driving in I-87N in NYS to Montreal. As soon as we would go over the US border, the vehicle would drift to the right or the left, due to the crest on the highway. When back in the US, it would stop and the vehicle would track perfectly straight. my .02...
Guess it is all how one treats the customer service rep as well as knowing exactly what needs to be done, which of course is explained to them in a civil tone. Too many people charge in like a bull in a china shop and wonder why they tend to be placed on the back burner.
Have had nothing but great service from my personal mechanic Ted, going on 17 years now. Reichard Buick the same I get along with them as well, Steve and I just chuckle when I say to him "Hey have you heard the latest of issues with the lambda's", oh and I don't mean laughing as in treating it like a big joke, but laughing that the majority of the time he response is "really".
I have said if anybody is within the Dayton area and needs a great dealership Reichard is it. If you want a mechanic not associated with a dealership then Ted is the one. Heck I even directed my 87 year old Uncle to Ted because the gentleman he always took his Cadillac to closed his shop.
Sailfish I am in the St. Louis area, so Ted is a little too far away. Over the years, I have noticed GM and Ford have trained their mechanics to follow "Recipes" for fixing cars instead of training them on Basics of HOW things work and using their Brain to troubleshoot problems. If going thru the recipe does not fix problem, then there is no problem. I think that is what is happening here. "Car pulls to left- perform wheel alignment- test drive- If still pulls left perform wheel alignment again- test drive- If still pulls left tell customer car is in Spec and find excuse to close ticket." If The Recipes are constructed properly and include ALL causes of the problem, this would be a good way to reduce costs and direct mechanic quickly to problem part but they seem to be based on procedures rather than problems. Anyway, I need to find a way to get them to consider the problem as something other than an Alignment problem.
I understand your frustration over this.enclave952 said:
When I had the 07 Outlook the engine had to be dropped out for the second time, within 45 days from the first I had a problem.
The alignment was off when I got it back, it also pulled to the left. I called Steve at Reichard back a couple days later and took it back the following week and they fixed the issue. He apologized as the service tech should have known that when they take everything apart and put it back together again, like they did, the alignment was on the check off list of what should have been done.
That is why I am happy with Reichard and as long as the B2B warranty is still good I will continue to take the Enclave there, even if it is just for oil changes.
Gold, the hunter is for wheel balance not an alignment instrument. I have lots of experience with the Road force unit and the Enclave - my first one had the wheels balanced over 20 times.
The Road force machine as well as balancing the wheel applies a side wall pressure to get a lateral stability value, it also presses down on the tire to get a road force value, it when tells them if the wheel can be balanced or whether the tire need to be rotated on the rim to match heavy spot on tire to rim. It then allocates the bast place on the car given these values to minimize vibration. It however does nothing for align.
I would be asking for an alignment of all 4 wheels - this is common on AWD cars as they usually have the ability to adjust castor camber front to back. The Audi system Optifex is done with a series of laser/cameras that aligns the front , the rear and then how the wheel track front to back, if the alignment is out you get crabbing - this is where the car is actually trying to drive a very large arc. It need a good operator to do this and set the wheel units up correctly for level and fit.
This might give to more ammo :-
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm
You said that the steering wheel was not centered - check out the part on Thrust angle - what I referred to a crabbing.
hope some of this helps.
The Road force machine as well as balancing the wheel applies a side wall pressure to get a lateral stability value, it also presses down on the tire to get a road force value, it when tells them if the wheel can be balanced or whether the tire need to be rotated on the rim to match heavy spot on tire to rim. It then allocates the bast place on the car given these values to minimize vibration. It however does nothing for align.
I would be asking for an alignment of all 4 wheels - this is common on AWD cars as they usually have the ability to adjust castor camber front to back. The Audi system Optifex is done with a series of laser/cameras that aligns the front , the rear and then how the wheel track front to back, if the alignment is out you get crabbing - this is where the car is actually trying to drive a very large arc. It need a good operator to do this and set the wheel units up correctly for level and fit.
This might give to more ammo :-
http://www.familycar.com/Alignment.htm
You said that the steering wheel was not centered - check out the part on Thrust angle - what I referred to a crabbing.
hope some of this helps.
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